DOJ-OGR-00013303.pdf

Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 755 Filed 08/10/22 Page 25 of 262 1730 LC8VMAX2 THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Rohrbach. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, I have interviewed Ms. Gill. I think she would likely say that the Mar-a-Lago does not make independent efforts to verify information on these forms. I've also been reading United States v. Lieberman. I do think this case is distinguishable. The case is about an outsider to the hotel filling out a form or -- the case said it wouldn't matter if the employee filled it out themselves. Verification is important there because they are just taking the information of the outsider at their word. Here, Mr. Roberts was an employee of Mar-a-Lago; so he had a business duty not to lie to his own employer. So he's not an outsider in the traditional sense the way that United States v. Lieberman and cases like it are talking about. It would have been a violation of his duty, a fireable offense, presumably, by Mar-a-Lago if he had lied to them about the names of his dependents and obtained for them insurance coverage. THE COURT: I'm not persuaded that that distinguishes a binding precedent. It's a point of distinction, but it doesn't show verification. Do you have authority for beyond verification, some obligation to fill it out truthfully or the like? In fact, there's no -- I'm not aware of any obligation of employees to fill it out truthfully other than the fact that they could get SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00013303