DOJ-OGR-00017495.pdf

--- Page 1 --- **Document Image Extraction** **Case Information** * Case Number: 1:20-cr-00330-PAE * Document Number: 743 * Filed Date: 08/10/22 * Page Number: 133 of 247 **Header and Footer** * Case Number: 1:20-cr-00330-PAE * Document Number: 743 * Filed Date: 08/10/22 * Page Number: 133 of 247 * Southern District Reporters, P.C. * Phone Number: (212) 805-0300 * DOJ-OGR-00017495 **Text Extraction** 1. needed help because he was expanding, getting bigger, you know, 2. first time he had his own private jet, that he needed help to 3. handle everything else in his life so that he could focus on 4. his business. And when you start buying homes and properties, 5. he -- 6. Q. I'm sorry to interrupt. 7. A. He knew he was going to get busy. So Ghislaine was his 8. go-to person to handle everything else that was not 9. business-related with his company. 10. Q. So I think you said at some point, though, in the mid '90s, 11. it may have appeared to you that Ghislaine was involved in a 12. personal relationship with Epstein; isn't that right? 13. A. Yeah, I thought they were a couple in the mid '90s. It's 14. just my own take on it. 15. Q. And that was based on your observations of them together at 16. the time and how they interacted with each other? 17. A. Sure. Yes. 18. Q. They made travel plans together, they talked to each other, 19. things like that? 20. A. Yes. 21. Q. But I think you testified that it wasn't totally clear to 22. you that Epstein and Ghislaine had a romantic relationship; 23. right? 24. A. Yeah, I don't know what the definition of a romantic 25. relationship is as opposed to just relationship. To me, **Note:** The document appears to be a transcript of a court proceeding, with the case number, document number, and filed date visible at the top. The text extraction includes the conversation between the parties, with the questioner (Q) and the respondent (A) labeled accordingly. The document also includes the Southern District Reporters, P.C. information and phone number at the bottom.