EFTA00112943.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 21, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00112943  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00112944  3 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 The recorder is now on. My name is 3 . I'm a Special Agent with the 4 U.S. Department of Justice Office of the 5 Inspector General New York Field Office and 6 these are my credentials. I don't know if you 7 can see it, Mr. 8 MR. : I could see. 9 MR. : Okay. This interview with 10 former Federal Bureau of Prisons employee 11 is being conducted as part of an 12 official U.S. Department of Justice Office of 13 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 14 date is March 21, 2022. The time is 11:08 a.m. 15 This interview is being conducted via Zoom 16 videoconferencing as, Mr. , you're 17 currently in Kentucky; is that accurate? 18 MR. : Correct. 19 MR. : Also present is DOJ/OIG 20 Assistant Special Agent in Charge 21 . This interview will be recorded by 22 me, Special Agent Could 23 everyone please identify themselves for the 24 record and spell your last name? To start 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00112945  4 1 . That's I 2 MR. : I am 3 with the 4 DOJ/OIG, and these are my 5 credentials. 6 MR. : Received. 7 MR. : Mr. can you please 8 identify yourself and spell your last name for 9 the record? 10 MR. : Yeah, my name is 11 . I am a on some 12 documents, and I am a former employee of the 13 DOJ Federal Bureau of Prisons and particular to 14 this matter MCC New York. 15 MR. : Thank you. This is an 16 official DOJ/OIG investigation into the events 17 surrounding the death of Inmate Jeffrey Epstein 18 and you're being asked to voluntarily provide 19 answers to our questions. Will you agree to a 20 voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. : Just for the record I did 23 email you two forms prior to this interview, 24 one was OIG Form 3-226-2, that is the Warnings 25 and Assurances. And the other form is OIG Form EFTA00112946  5 1 3-226/10A, which would be the Non-Disclosure 2 Agreement, and you signed - you read both of 3 them, signed them, but for the record I'm going 4 to read them to you and let's start off with 5 the Warnings and Assurances form. 6 The United - the form states: The United 7 States Department of Justice Office of 8 Inspector General Warnings and Assurances to 9 Employee Requested to Provide Information on a 10 Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 11 provide information as part of an investigation 12 being conducted by the Office of the Inspector 13 General. 14 This investigation is being conducted 15 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 16 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 17 performance failure and security failure. This 18 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 19 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 20 action will be taken against you if you choose 21 not to answer questions. Any statement you 22 wish to - you furnish may be used as evidence 23 in any future criminal proceedings or agency 24 disciplinary proceeding or both. 25 The waiver states I understand the EFTA00112947  6 1 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 2 willing to make a statement and answer 3 questions. No promises or threats have been 4 made to and no pressure or coercion of any kind 5 has been used against me. 6 Mr. , you've read the form? 7 MR. : Yes, I have. 8 MR. : You understand the form and 9 you agree to move forward with the interview? 10 MR. : Yes, I do. 11 MR. : And you've already signed the 12 form and you sent it back to me and myself and 13 -- 14 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:03:43). 15 MR. will sign 16 the document after the interview. The second 17 form states: Department of Justice Office of 18 Inspector General Non-Disclosure Agreement. I, 19 , understand that the Department of 20 Justice Office of Inspector General OIG will 21 allow me to review certain documents in 22 connection with my remote interview with the 23 OIG on March 21, 2022, in order to facilitate 24 that remote interview. A copy of the documents 25 shown to me during my interview with the OIG EFTA00112948  7 1 labeled OIG Documents will be made part of the 2 OIG record of that interview. 3 As a condition of being granted access to 4 review the OIG interview documents, I agree not 5 to make an audio or video recording of the 6 interview, excuse me, and I also agree that 7 until the OIG's final report or a summary of 8 the final report is released to the public I 9 will not copy, photograph, discuss, or disclose 10 any information from or about the OIG interview 11 documents I review to anyone other than the 12 OIG, my attorney if I have legal counsel who 13 also executes a non-disclosure agreement with 14 terms similar to this agreement, or other 15 specifically authorized by the OIG after any 16 such person executes a non-disclosure agreement 17 with terms similar to this agreement. 18 I further agree that even after the OIG's 19 final report or a summary of the final report 20 is released to the public I will not discuss or 21 disclose any information from or about the OIG 22 interview documents that are not contained in 23 or that are redacted from the publicly released 24 final report or summary of the final report. 25 These provisions are consistent with and EFTA00112949  8 1 do not supersede, conflict with, or otherwise 2 alter the employee obligations, rights, or 3 liabilities created by existing statute or 4 Executive order relating to (1) classified 5 information, (2) communications to Congress, 6 (3) the reporting to an Inspector General or 7 the Office of Special Counsel of a violation of 8 any law, rule, or regulation, or mismanagement, 9 a gross waste of funds, an abuse of authority, 10 or a substantial and specific danger to public 11 health or safety, or (4) any other 12 whistleblower protection. The definitions, 13 requirements, obligations, rights, sanctions, 14 and liabilities created by controlling 15 Executive order and statutory provisions are 16 incorporate into this agreement and are 17 controlling. 18 Mr. , do you understand that non- 19 disclosure order? 20 MR. : I do. 21 MR. : And you already read the 22 document, you signed it, and you've dated it. 23 Thank you for that. 24 MR. : You're welcome. 25 MR. : Before I start the interview EFTA00112950  9 1 I would like to place you under oath. Mr. 2 can you please raise your right hand? 3 Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but 4 the truth during this interview? 5 MR. : I do. 6 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 7 hand down. Please let me know if you do not - 8 if you don't understand any questions and I'll 9 try to repeat it or rephrase it for you. 10 MR. : Sure. 11 MR. : So we'll start with your 12 background. What is your current home address? 13 MR. : My current home address is 14 15 16 MR. : What is your date of birth? 17 MR. • • 18 MR. : And what's your Social 19 Security Number? 20 MR. • • 21 MR. : Thank you. What is your 22 current cellphone number? 23 MR. : Area code 24 MR. : Okay. What's your current - 25 what's your highest level of education? EFTA00112951  10 1 MR. : Currently in college still 2 pursuing a bachelor's degree. 3 MR. : Which college? 4 MR. : Probably about a semester ago 5 I was in Champlain College all online out of 6 Burlington, Vermont, and I just recently 7 transferred 8 right here in 9 MR. : And what are you pursuing 10 your bachelor's degree in? 11 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:07:52), 12 yeah. 13 MR. : Do you have an associate's 14 degree? 15 MR. : Credit wise, yes, but 16 formerly, no. 17 MR. : And what did you do prior to 18 working for the BOP? 19 MR. : Prior to the BOP I was a 20 truck driver delivering fuel, oil, and stuff 21 like that. And prior to that I was down in 22 North Carolina where I was a correctional 23 officer for the State of North Carolina, which 24 is what got me my job into the BOP, my 25 experience. EFTA00112952  11 1 MR. : Okay. So from - since high 2 school - from high school you started working 3 for the North Carolina BOP or did you do other 4 jobs before that? 5 MR. : Oh, from high school I 6 MR. : Various jobs? 7 MR. : Man of many - I - man of many 8 trades. I can't even count how many jobs I've 9 had, but my main career out of everything was 10 truck driving. I was pretty much a truck 11 driver. I drove all kinds of trucks and stuff 12 like that. Then when I met my current wife 13 back in '08 we had moved to North Carolina to 14 be by her family and that's when I acquired a 15 job with the North Carolina Department of 16 Corrections, and then I was down there for two 17 years and did that. 18 We moved back to New York, which is where 19 I went back to driving truck again while I was 20 in the hiring process for the Bureau of 21 Prisons. And then I ended up getting hired 22 with the Bureau of Prisons in November of 2011, 23 and I started at MDC Brooklyn. 24 MR. : How long were you at MDC 25 Brooklyn for? EFTA00112953  12 1 MR. : Right around two years and 2 then I transferred down to FCI Estill in South 3 Carolina, and I was there for about two years 4 or so, got promoted to General Foreman and 5 transferred out to FCC Hazelton, which is a 6 complex out in West Virginia, Bruceton Mills, 7 and I did a little over a year there and came 8 out to MCC New York in December of 2016 is when 9 I got to New York. 10 MR. : Was that your first --? 11 MR. : Basically, worked - what's 12 that? 13 MR. : Sorry. Was that your first 14 time at MCC? 15 MR. : Yes. Yep. 16 MR. : Okay. Go ahead. 17 MR. : I worked at all three - the 18 worst three prisons in the Bureau of Prisons. 19 MR. : So with the BOP, once you got 20 to MCC in 2016 is that where you spent the rest 21 of your career with BOP at MCC? 22 MR. : It was. I was there - I got 23 there in December of 2016, I think it was right 24 before Christmas and my last day on the job was 25 Valentine's Day of 2019. EFTA00112954  13 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : And I was there for that 3 amount of time as a General Foreman. 4 MR. : You --. 5 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:10:58) 6 was that February 14, 2019? 7 MR. : That's correct. 8 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MR. : Do you recall your EOD date 11 with the BOP, exact date by any chance? 12 MR. : Yeah, November 6, 2011. 13 MR. : Okay. And when did you 14 graduate from BOP training? 15 MR. : I would have to look that up. 16 MR. : It's okay. If you don't 17 remember it, don't worry about that. We just 18 it's generic question we ask. 19 MR. : I was there for Super Bowl, 20 so if I got hired in November and I was in 21 Glynco for Super Bowl, I would say it had to 22 have been February of 120. No, I'm sorry, '12, 23 2012, yeah. 24 MR. : So when you started with the 25 MCC you said you were a general foreman and EFTA00112955  14 1 that was your position up until when you 2 separated from the MCC in February 14, 2019? 3 MR. : Correct. 4 MR. : Okay. And what is your - 5 after you left MCC, what is your current title 6 and what agency do you work for? 7 MR. : I currently work for the 8 9 and I am a Building Manager. 10 MR. : Okay. While you were at the 11 MCC as a general foreman, was that your title 12 in 2018 and 2019? 13 MR. : General foreman was the 14 internal kind of phrase. I think the position 15 title officially OPM was Maintenance Mechanic 16 Supervisor. 17 MR. : Hold on, let me write that. 18 MR. : And I was WS-4749, Grade 14, 19 Step Five. 20 MR. : So official title is 21 Maintenance Mechanic Supervisor? 22 MR. : Correct. 23 MR. : And who did you report to? 24 MR. : The facility manager. 25 MR. : Who was the facility manager EFTA00112956  15 1 at that point? 2 MR. 3 MR. : And when did Mr. - my 4 understanding is Mr. retired from MCC. 5 When did he - according to your recollection, 6 when did he retire from the MCC? 7 MR. : I would probably have to say 8 - I don't know the exact dates because his exit 9 was kind of unique. He didn't actually 10 initially retire; he went out on some kind of 11 other type of leave and eventually it's to my 12 understanding he ended up retiring. But when 13 he had went out all communication stopped with 14 everybody with him. Nobody - he never kept in 15 touch with anybody. He never reached out. But 16 17 MR. : When was that? 18 MR. : I really don't know what - 19 hey, I don't know his exact date, but I would 20 probably want to say that I was there for 21 almost maybe just under or right around or 22 another year after he had left. I don't think 23 it was that much because there was several 24 other people locally that had filled in 25 including me for his position. EFTA00112957  16 1 MR. : So you recall that other 2 people filled in his position while he was gone 3 while you were still there? 4 MR. : Correct. 5 MR. : Okay. So do you believe he 6 left in 2019 or 2018? 7 MR. : I really honestly couldn't 8 tell you. I do remember --. 9 MR. : I think what is 10 trying to ask is not his official retirement 11 date but around when did he leave the MCC and 12 communication with him stopped. I think you 13 said -- 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- it was approximately a 16 year before you left? 17 MR. : Yeah. The only thing I can 18 tell you - I don't really know the dates. The 19 only thing I know from what I recall is Mr. 20 had just went to Denver, Colorado, for 21 some kind of facilities manager conference 22 training and he had never returned back to the 23 institution once he went to that training or 24 conference or whatever it was. It had 25 something to do with facility managers all EFTA00112958  17 1 going out there. And all I know is that when 2 he went out there, he went there for a week or 3 so, and he never returned to the institution 4 after that. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : It was (Indiscernible 7 *00:15:24) --. 8 MR. : Do you know why he left, 9 what happened? 10 MR. : I have no idea. I have no 11 idea. I couldn't tell you. I mean, there was 12 a lot of rumors, but I just know that when he 13 went to that training, it was like he went home 14 after that. He never came back to the 15 institution or that conference, whatever. 16 MR. : Now, do you know if it 17 was personal reasons, medical, or 18 administrative? 19 MR. : I have no idea why he didn't 20 come back although he did make 21 known to us on the job, that he hail'', 22 23 MR. : Okay. And you said a few 24 people filled in the position. So his title 25 you said was Facility Manager, right? And EFTA00112959  18 1 what, was he your direct supervisor? 2 MR. : He was, yep. 3 MR. : Okay. And who does the 4 facility manager report to? 5 MR. : The Associate Warden of 6 Operations. 7 MR. : And who was Associate Warden 8 of Operations in end of 2018 if you recall? 9 MR. : So we had three in the time 10 that I was there, and I believe worked 11 under all three of them. So there was 12 , and then the last 13 one that was there prior to me leaving was 14 or They called him 15 but I believe his real name was 16 MR. -: , okay. 17 MR. : All three of them had 18 performed - they were the AWO they call it, AW 19 of Operations, which oversaw the Facilities 20 Department, and that's who the facility manager 21 directly reported to. 22 MR. : Okay. And when Mr. 23 left the MCC and that's not when he retired 24 (Indiscernible *00:17:19) this is when he 25 stepped away for leave purposes, do you recall EFTA00112960  19 1 who took over for him initially? 2 MR. : Yeah. So the warden at the 3 time which I can't remember which one it was 4 because there was so much staff that came and 5 went throughout this whole thing, that one time 6 it was the executive assistant who was told to 7 oversee the department, and then at another 8 time the AW oversaw the department. 9 MR. : When you say "executive 10 assistant" -- 11 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:17:56). 12 MR. -- who was that? 13 MR. • (Phonetic Sp. 14 *00:17:59). 15 MR. : So he oversaw it for a little 16 bit? 17 MR. : He did, yes. 18 MR. : Okay. And then who was the 19 next person? 20 MR. • 21 . He was told to oversee it. And then 22 there was a little bit of a stint where, you 23 know, I could just informally absorbed a lot of 24 his job duties just to get the department 25 functioning, but I was never actually promoted EFTA00112961  20 1 or paid or anything like that that actually - I 2 was never formally designated as acting or 3 anything like that, I just had to do some of 4 the facility manager functions in order to have 5 the department operational. 6 So I would get my go-ahead for - to do 7 those functions. They would - they oversaw it 8 or approved by either III or 9 at the time. 10 MR. : So they gave you the go-ahead 11 and you went ahead and completed the functions. 12 Do you recall when exactly this time period was 13 when you acted? 14 MR. : I wasn't really designate - 15 I wasn't really acting, I was just - if I had 16 to do - if I had to get something done that a 17 facility manager would normally have to do, I 18 would just go to the - whatever time period it 19 was, if III was over the department or if 20 was over the department, I would 21 have to go to them and say, "Hey, listen, can I 22 go ahead and do this? Can you give me the 23 approval, sign off on it?" and then I would 24 actually do the act. 25 MR. : Okay. Bear with me a second. EFTA00112962  21 1 Let's see. Maybe this might help -- I have a 2 SigNet contract here, right? And it's multiple 3 questions will be on the SigNet contract -- 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. and bear with me. I'm 6 going to see if I can share my screen here. 7 This document that I'm showing you, can you see 8 it? 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : Why is this - how about now? 11 MR. : I got something coming up. 12 Yep, I could see it. 13 MR. : Okay. So this document that 14 I'm showing you is - it says, "MCC New York." 15 It says, "Solicitation Contract Order for 16 Commercial Items Offered to Complete Blocks 12, 17 17, 23, 24, and 30." 18 MR. : Yep. 19 MR. : And it says, "Requisition 20 Number 1064-18." 21 MR. Yep. 22 MR. : This is just for the record. 23 I'm just reading it, just the top part, so we 24 know which document this is. The Contract 25 Number states GS-07F as in Frank-0322T, and the EFTA00112963  22 1 Award Effective Date is 09/21/2018. Do you 2 recall -- 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. -- this document at all? 5 MR. : I don't see that document, 6 no. 7 MR. : See over here. 8 MR. : But it's not under the 9 facility manager one. I don't recall ever 10 putting my eyes on the document. 11 MR. : This is part - Section 15. 12 You see over here? 13 MR. : Correct. 14 MR. : And it's - it's says 15 "Delivered to Federal Bureau of Prisons MCC New 16 York" and lists you as a point of contact. 17 MR. : Correct. 18 MR. : Now, if we scroll down a bit. 19 MR. : Uh-huh. 20 MR. : We're going to scroll down to 21 Page 6 on this document. 22 MR. : Correct. 23 MR. : It lists you as the 24 facilities manager. Does this jog your memory 25 at all? EFTA00112964  23 1 MR. : I do. I was always - when 2 had left, I was pretty much assumed the 3 facilities manager. Like I said, I was never 4 formally promoted or even temporarily entered 5 that position, nor was I ever designated as 6 acting. So the fact that that says facility 7 manager, I don't know why or who put that there 8 because I was always a general foreman. I was 9 never, ever in the role of a facility or with 10 (Indiscernible *00:22:26) title, whether 11 temporary or permanent, was never a facility 12 manager. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. 15 MR. _: 16 MR. : I was never even formally 17 designated as acting, they just pretty much 18 said, "There's no facility manager, is 19 next in the chain of command," so they just 20 referred to me as it. That's what I'm assuming 21 whoever typed this up. 22 MR. : I know it's been about three, 23 four years. I know it's kind of tough 24 remembering some of this stuff, that's why we 25 trying to pull - we try to pull documents where EFTA00112965  24 1 we believe it could help you. 2 MR. : Right. 3 MR. : I know we have an email. I 4 don't know if this will help a little bit too. 5 This email right here, it says "Regarding 6 forward cameras from to 7 (Phonetic Sp. *00:23:06)." Who is that? 8 MR. : He was, I believe, the 9 supervisor of the SIS Department at the time. 10 MR. : And was --. 11 MR. : He was like the lead SIS 12 investigator. 13 MR. : Okay. And then we have 14 , who is that? 15 MR. : He was a communications 16 technician that I supervised in the Facilities 17 Department. 18 MR. : And we have III . Was 19 that the executive assistant that you mentioned 20 before? 21 MR. : Oh, correct, yep. 22 MR. : And this is dated January 4, 23 2019. 24 MR. : Correct, yep. 25 MR. : And we'll go through the EFTA00112966  25 1 email, but it says on the bottom, it says 2 Is that - that's your signature, CESCO 3 General Foreman-Acting Facility Manager? 4 MR. : Correct. 5 MR. : So I know this is in January 6 4th. I know you mentioned you were always under 7 the title of General Foreman, but you were also 8 not officially acting, but you were still doing 9 the job. Does that help at all jog your 10 memory? 11 MR. : Right. So an email went out 12 by the AW telling all the department heads that 13 when had left that I would be running 14 the Facilities Department until a replacement 15 was found, hence why I would assume the acting 16 part went into my signature line. 17 MR. : Got it. And do you know when 18 this email went out? 19 MR. : That looks like a month 20 before I left according to the date. 21 MR. : No, no, I meant - you said 22 there was an email that went out saying - from 23 the AW saying that you would be acting --. 24 MR. : Oh. Oh, yeah, I don't - I 25 couldn't - it'd have to have been - it was EFTA00112967  26 1 shortly after - it might have even been from 2 the warden if I'm not mistaken, which was 3 , because I remember whatever happened 4 with down in Colorado and why he didn't 5 come back I remember that the Warden 6 was very, very upset with whatever was going 7 on, and I just remember somebody, I can't 8 recall exactly who - came down to the 9 office, to my office, and spoke to me 10 personally and told me that he would like me to 11 just hold things down until they figure out 12 things, what was going to happen with 13 and see what was going to happen. 14 And then I remember an email going out 15 telling all department heads that I would be 16 to see me for any facilities-related issues -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : -- because was no 19 longer there. 20 MR. : Okay. So according to this 21 you were acting facility manager, but you were 22 general foreman, but you were acting at this 23 point. And so, on record is it possible from 24 the time that when Warden assigned you the 25 title to when you left were you the acting EFTA00112968  27 1 facilities manager - facility manager? 2 MR. : So I don't - I would - 3 definitely not up until the time I left because 4 there was some butting of heads between me and 5 and at times where they 6 overrode a lot of decisions that I made that 7 I'm normally supposed to make underneath my 8 title. So 9 MR. : Can you give us an example? 10 MR. : -- at the very, very end I 11 believe III at the time was running the 12 department for the most part at the time that I 13 left. So it wasn't the whole entire time, it 14 was very sporadic. It was just constant change 15 of roles and responsibilities and - but I was 16 definitely at one point - like I said, it was 17 like a - it was just like an informal internal, 18 "Hey, this is He's going to be the 19 facility manager until we figure out what's 20 going on," and they fill the position, which 21 they had not since I walked out the door. 22 MR. : So basically - my 23 understanding from what you're saying is on --. 24 MR. : But I guess what you would 25 say is during this time period I would be the EFTA00112969  28 1 guy who would have - if anybody had any 2 questions or concerns involving this contract, 3 they would had to have I guess come to me, 4 yeah. 5 MR. : Okay. Now, do you remember - 6 I know you mentioned that the (Indiscernible 7 *00:27:37). Tell me, do you recall if there 8 was an update or upgrade of the camera system 9 going on in - at the MCC in 2018 or `19? 10 MR. : Prior to this right here? 11 MR. : Well, (Indiscernible 12 *00:27:53) this document for a second. Give me 13 - hold on, let me see. We'll come back to that 14 document. Do you recall in general was there 15 an upgrade happening at the MCC for the camera 16 system? 17 MR. : There was an upgrade that 18 started with 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : There was - from what I 21 understand there was camera issues well - going 22 way back well before I even got there, long 23 before even got there. They had 24 recorder and decoder issues. There was a whole 25 slew of things and I would assume - I would EFTA00112970  29 1 imagine it was probably due to the age of the 2 institution and there was very little 3 infrastructure upgrades and updating and stuff 4 like that. But I remember prior to, you know, 5 me inheriting what started, there was 6 all kind of issues with the cameras from what I 7 heard from internal communications and stuff 8 like that. 9 So started this program, this 10 project, at the request of higherups. I don't 11 really know the backdrop on that, that was in 12 between them. And then I really did not get 13 involved with it at all until he never came 14 back to work. He dropped off and then I just 15 picked up after him. 16 MR. : I kind of missed a key point 17 I wanted to ask. So as a - can you 18 differentiate the job duties between a facility 19 manager and the general foreman? 20 MR. : So basically, the facility 21 manager they keep track of the budget. They 22 authorize expenditures. They obviously 23 supervise me, and then I in turn supervise the 24 subordinate staff, the wage grade trade guys. 25 But basically, he handled the approval of EFTA00112971  30 1 projects, you know, submitted approvals for 2 projects. He did, like, the five- and 10-year 3 plans for the facility, authorized all the 4 expenditures. He went ahead and sat in on all 5 the department head meetings to give executive 6 staff briefings on what's going on in the 7 department, progress reports, stuff like that. 8 Listen to any concerns that they would have and 9 then he brings it back to us. 10 And in my job, my main job by title is 11 literally - I was in charge of supervising, 12 monitoring, and then the wage grade guys that 13 were below me because I was also wage grade. 14 The facility manager is a GS employee. I was a 15 WS employee just like the rest of the trade 16 guys. And my job was basically to supervise 17 them guys, assign them work, make sure they 18 were coming and going in the facility with the 19 inmates, make sure that they were handling 20 their tools and all that other stuff. I did 21 their performance evaluations and all that 22 other stuff. And the facility manager pretty 23 much did all that on me. 24 So he was my supervisor. He would 25 evaluate me, you know, keep track of my time EFTA00112972  31 1 and all that other stuff. And that's pretty 2 much it. 3 MR. : Who were some of the 4 employees that reported to you? You said the 5 wage employees. Who were the employees that 6 reported to you? 7 MR. : In the Facility Department it 8 was the trade specific wage guys, so you had 9 the communications technicians, engineering 10 technicians, carpenters, plumbers, 11 electricians, HVAC guys. And then each one of 12 those tradesmen have a (Indiscernible 13 *00:31:39) of inmates that work for them, so I 14 would go ahead - work orders would come in from 15 all departments, you know, requests, "Hey, can 16 you change a light bulb? Can you unclog the 17 toilet here?" I would give that work order to 18 the appropriate trade guy and then he would 19 take his group of inmates and go out into the 20 institution and fix it and close out the work 21 order, report back to me. 22 MR. : Okay. Agent , any 23 questions on that before I move forward with 24 the contracts? 25 MR. : Yes, I'm just writing EFTA00112973  32 1 down some follow-up questions. So just - can 2 you just clarify again, when were you actually 3 the acting facilities manager? 4 MR. : It was whenever they wanted 5 me to be basically. It was sporadic and on and 6 off, so --. 7 MR. : Yeah. I got it. You 8 said, like, when Beckham or departed 9 they put out an email and then we saw an email 10 that was from January of 2019 that said that 11 you were acting facilities manager but then you 12 said you weren't. 13 MR. : Well, it was in my signature 14 line the acting facility manager, so I think it 15 was just never - I think I rolled with that 16 since left. I think that acting part 17 just stayed in the signature line. But there 18 was 19 MR. : After they made the 20 notification that you were the acting facility 21 manager, did they ever tell you that you were 22 not the acting facility manager? 23 MR. : Yeah, that's why I was saying 24 it was - I bumped heads with executive staff 25 sometimes because I thought a lot of the EFTA00112974  33 1 decisions that they were making weren't in the 2 best interest of the facility at the time. And 3 when I say that I mean, like, infrastructure 4 stuff, you know. And I kind of like - they 5 didn't like the way I prioritized certain 6 things within the department. 7 So there was some conflicts every now and 8 again and that's why the warden would go ahead 9 and say, "Okay. Hey, III, you know what, 10 you're overseeing the Facilities Department 11 now. Have report to you." And then they 12 also did the same thing with at one 13 point where he came in, which was right around 14 the thing and where he was told that he 15 was going to go ahead and - so they were like 16 dual role. They were pretty much - your 17 executive assistant and the facility manager 18 and then your AWO and the facility manager. 19 MR. : So were you still the 20 acting facility manager and they were just 21 overseeing what you were doing to make sure 22 that in your acting capacity you're doing it 23 right? Or they --. 24 MR. : That's up to interpretation. 25 I didn't have any decision-making power. It EFTA00112975  34 1 had to all go through them -- 2 MR. : But --. 3 MR. -- while (Indiscernible 4 *00:34:33). 5 MR. : But at least in your 6 signature line you maintained the acting 7 facility manager? 8 MR. : I guess. I guess I just 9 never took it out, yeah. But 10 MR. : But was there ever 11 anything official that went out, like there was 12 an official email saying you're the acting 13 facility manager. Was there ever anything that 14 said you're no longer the acting facility 15 manager or - you know what I'm saying, like --? 16 MR. : Yeah, no, not to my knowledge 17 there was - because there was talks because 18 they were dragging on the hiring of a 19 replacement facility manager because 20 case, whatever he had going on on his personal 21 side with the Bureau they couldn't fill the job 22 until they finalized what was happening with 23 him. They needed like, I guess, an end date or 24 something like that. They needed to know when 25 was falling off the books in order for EFTA00112976  35 1 them to re-post the job. 2 So there was never - it went on for so 3 long. Like I said, it was from the point that 4 I had walked out the door there in February of 5 '19 there was still no facility manager there. 6 And I also know at the time that I walked out I 7 may have not took the word "acting" out of my 8 signature line, but I know I wasn't acting at 9 that time that I had left per se. 10 And I don't recall ever an official email 11 going out saying where I was acting. I 12 remember an email going out saying to all 13 department heads that was no longer 14 around and if anybody needed anything from the 15 facilities department to see me. 16 MR. : Now, were you --. 17 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:36:07). 18 MR. : Through the whole time 19 were you a part of these meetings that you said 20 that the facility manager would be a part of? 21 MR. : Some of them, yes, I was. 22 Yep. 23 MR. : So until the time you 24 left you still were sitting in the meeting the 25 facility manager would sit in then? EFTA00112977  36 1 MR. : I was even in those meetings 2 when the facility manager was there. We all 3 sat in together. 4 MR. : Now, would you have been 5 sitting in those meetings if you were just the 6 general foreman? 7 MR. : At his request if he wanted 8 me to or even if one of the executive staff 9 wanted me there. It all depends on what they 10 would have discussed at that time. 11 MR. : Did you (Indiscernible 12 *00:36:44) --? 13 MR. : He could choose. So the -- 14 MR. : (Indiscernible 15 *00:36:45). 16 MR. : -- facility manager could 17 choose to have me there, or he could say, "I 18 got this. Don't worry about, you don't got to 19 come." 20 MR. : So when you were - at 21 least, you know, from the time left 22 until February, were you automatically assumed 23 to be in those meetings or you'd have to be 24 invited to each individual one? 25 MR. : It's kind of like both. I EFTA00112978  37 1 expected myself to be there because somebody 2 had to represent the department in there, but 3 they also put out a roll call sheet prior to 4 those meetings and if I saw my name on it, I 5 went. 6 MR. : And was your name 7 (Indiscernible *00:37:21)? 8 MR. : Not always, no. 9 MR. : Okay. No, I'm just 10 trying to get behind were you acting and then 11 you just had someone overseeing you or - yeah, 12 I'm just trying to figure out how because we're 13 14 MR. : I always had somebody 15 overseeing me, always. 16 MR. : Right. 17 MR. : Because even the facility 18 manager had somebody overseeing him, so 19 (Indiscernible *00:37:39). 20 MR. : But if you were going to 21 write your resume would you say that you were 22 acting a facility manager for that time? 23 MR. : No, because it wasn't 24 official. 25 MR. : (Indiscernible EFTA00112979  38 1 *00:37:49). 2 MR. : Well, I --. 3 MR. : I'd say that was 4 official. 5 MR. : I don't know what an official 6 is really. 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : I couldn't be honest with 9 you. 10 MR. : No, if you're acting, if 11 they sent out an email, I would say that's 12 pretty official saying that you're the acting 13 facility manager and you could put it in your 14 signature line. I mean, there's not like --. 15 MR. : I would normally and I 16 thought so, but I also found out also that if 17 you're, like, you know, not temporarily 18 promoted into it and stuff like that and you're 19 not getting paid to do the job - but like I 20 said, I do remember emails going out, I just 21 cannot recall if the word "acting" was put into 22 it or not and if the word "acting" was in it, 23 but I don't know if I ever recall that or not. 24 I mean, there was several times where it 25 would go out because called in sick or EFTA00112980  39 1 he went on vacation. I just don't recall if it 2 was ever done when he went off permanently. I 3 don't know if that was ever --. 4 MR. : Would it be a fair 5 statement for us to say that you were acting 6 facility manager with oversight? Would that be 7 a fair --? 8 MR. : I --. 9 MR. : Or just tell --. 10 MR. : I guess so. 11 MR. : We just have to document 12 it in our reports of, like, you know, what this 13 person's role was from this time to this time. 14 So in order for us to be clear, I want to make 15 sure that we're not writing something that's 16 inaccurate. It's nothing -- 17 MR. : Yeah. 18 MR. : -- to do with, like, 19 you're, you know - you know, this is just for 20 our report writing purposes we can say, you 21 know, " went out, you were the acting 22 facility manager from this date until, you 23 know, February 2019, and then, you know, you 24 clarify that you had oversight from the 25 executive staff in your position and were EFTA00112981  40 1 limited with your facility manager decision 2 making ability." Would that be fair? 3 MR. : Right, because if regardless 4 of whether I was acting or not and whether I 5 had oversight or not, the mere fact that 6 was not there, I still had to do a lot 7 of his duties to keep the department 8 functioning whether somebody deemed me 9 officially acting or not. I was still doing 10 his functions because he was not there. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : Under oversight from 13 executive staff. 14 MR. : Yeah, that sounds like 15 acting to me, so I just want to make sure that 16 we are clear there. Like you're just saying 17 you're not acting because you weren't official 18 - you know, you weren't temporarily promoted, 19 but you were performing those duties with 20 oversight. 21 MR. : They would - like I said, he 22 would call in sick and not come into work for a 23 couple days or go on vacation, so he would put 24 out an email to everybody in the institution 25 saying, " is acting facility manager EFTA00112982  41 1 for the time that I'm out." 2 MR. : And would you --? 3 MR. : And himself, the 4 facility manager. 5 MR. : Oh, prior to 6 going out in 2018? 7 MR. : He would - if he wanted to 8 take a week off and go somewhere, he would put 9 out an email letting the institution and the 10 executive staff know that " will be 11 acting in my capacity while I'm out." Happened 12 all the time. Same thing like me, I would do 13 the same thing and I would designate one of my 14 subordinates as acting for me if I went out. 15 But I do believe that at some point some 16 kind of email went out by one of the executive 17 staff after left that everybody should 18 come and see me for all facility-related issues 19 till further notice. And like I said, 20 came to my office right after we had found out 21 that wasn't coming back shortly after 22 that Denver trip and he told me that I would 23 have to run the department until they figure 24 out what was going on with him, which was top 25 secret and nobody knew anything. They didn't EFTA00112983  42 1 know nothing, couldn't tell you. 2 MR. : All right. Go ahead, 3 _. 4 MR. : Just to clarify. After you 5 had that meeting with , is that when he