EFTA00110002.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 DECEMBER 2, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00110002 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00110003 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 MR. : All right. The recorder 2 is on. There is also going to be - I'm just 3 going to go over, like, a list of - it's kind 4 of, like, an introduction, and just kind of a 5 preamble into what we are going to be 6 discussing, and who you are. It's going to 7 sound very scripted, and that's because it 8 pretty much is. But you are there still. 9 Correct? 10 MS. : Yes. Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : Perfect. All right. So, 12 my name is and I am a Senior 13 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 14 Justice, Office of the Inspector General. New 15 York Field Office. Boston Area Office. This 16 interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons 17 Associate Warden, - did I say 18 that correctly? 19 MS. : Yes. Correct. Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : Is being conducted as 21 part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, 22 Office of the Inspector General, or DOJ/OIG, 23 investigation. Today's date is December 2nd, 24 2021, and the time is 10:34 a.m. This 25 interview is being conducted by telephone. I EFTA00110004 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 contacted you, Ms. by telephone number 2 . Also present 3 by telephone is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 4 This interview will be recorded by 5 me, SSA Could everyone 6 please identify themselves for the record, and 7 spell your last name? To start, again, I am 8 DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent 9 And my last name is spelled 10 I. III, can you just state your name and spell 11 your name for the recorder? 12 MR. : Yes. I am DOJ/OIG Special 13 Agent Last name is spelled II ■ 15 MR. : And Ms. 16 MS. : My name is 17 Associate warden. Last name is spelled 18 19 MR. : Great. Thank you very 20 much. This is an official DOJ/OIG 21 investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey 22 Epstein and the surrounding circumstances, and 23 you are being asked to voluntarily provide 24 answers to our questions. Will you agree to 25 the interview with the DOJ/OIG? EFTA00110005 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Yes. I do. 2 MR. : Perfect. And were you 3 able to review the voluntary interview form 4 that I sent to you via email, the DOJ/OIG form 5 11I-226/2? 6 MS. : Yes, I was. Yes, I did. 7 MR. : Perfect. And thank you 8 for sending it back to me a few minutes ago. I 9 see that you signed and dated it. 10 MS. : Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : And do you understand the 12 OIG form? 13 MS. : Yes, I do. 14 MR. : Perfect. And just, I'm 15 going to just going to read it for the record, 16 so that that's something that we have to do. 17 It says, United States Department of Justice, 18 Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and 19 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 20 Information on a Voluntary Basis. It says, 21 "You are being asked to provide information as 22 part of an investigation being conducted by the 23 Office of the Inspector General. This 24 investigation is being conducted pursuant to 25 the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. EFTA00110006 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 This investigation pertains job performance 2 failure and security failure. This is a 3 voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not 4 have to answer questions. No disciplinary 5 action will be taken against you if you choose 6 not to answer questions. Any statements you 7 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 8 criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary 9 proceedings, or both." And there is a waiver 10 section. It says, "I understand the Warnings 11 and Assurances stated above, and I am willing 12 to make statements and answer questions. No 13 promises or threats have been made to me, and 14 no pressure or coercion of any kind has been 15 used against me." And I see that you signed 16 your signature. You printed your name, 17 And you dated and time 18 12/02/21, at 9:00 a.m. So, I assume that is 19 the time that you reviewed the form? 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Perfect. And that is 22 your signature on this form? 23 MS. : Yes, it is. 24 MR. : Awesome. And is there 25 any questions you have with regard to the EFTA00110007 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 interview, or this form? 2 MS. : No. I don't. 3 MR. : Awesome. So, I will be 4 signing my name as the Special Agent. And 5 then, I will print my name under that as the 6 Special Agent. do you mind - since this 7 is a telephone interview, you're not present - 8 do you mind if I sign for you, and place that 9 it was me that signed for you, and print your 10 name as the witness? 11 MR. : I don't mind. 12 MR. : Perfect. All right. So, 13 I will sign for you, and then print your name, 14 and I will add the telephone number that we 15 are, as the place. Great. Let me get back to 16 this. Before starting the interview, I would 17 like to place you under oath. Ms. , can 18 you please raise your right hand? Do you swear 19 to tell the truth and nothing but the truth 20 during this interview? 21 MS. : Yes, I do. 22 MR. : Perfect. Thank you. And 23 then, because we are not in person, I'm just 24 going to have to ask you a couple questions to 25 verify your identity. What is your current EFTA00110008 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 home address? 2 MS. . 38053. 4 MR. : Thank you. And what is 5 your date of birth? 6 MS. 7 MR. : And what is your social 8 security number? 9 MS. : Do I have to give it? 10 MR. : You can give me your last 11 four, if that's okay. 12 MS. : Okay. The last four. 13 MR. : Perfect. Thank you. And 14 how long have you worked for the BOP? 15 MS. : For 21 years. 16 MR. : Do you remember, 17 approximately, when your enter on duty date 18 was? 19 MS. : Yes. September 10 of 2000. 20 MR. : Perfect. And what is 21 your current position with the BOP? 22 MS. : I'm an Associate Warden. 23 MR. : And where is that? 24 MS. : I'm stationed at FCC Forrest 25 City in Forrest City, Arkansas. EFTA00110009 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : And how long have you 2 held that position? 3 MS. : I've been - well, I've been at 4 this present duty station since officially 5 September, but physically here in October. Bu- 6 I've been an associate warden for, prior to 7 that. 8 MR. : Okay. So, you've been 9 basically you were remote in September, and 10 then physically present in October of this 11 current year, 2021? 12 MS. : Correct. 13 MR. : Perfect. And you - I'm 14 sorry - you said you've been an associate 15 warden since when? 16 MS. : I've been an associate warden 17 since - we're in 2021 - I think 2017. 18 MR. : Since 2017? 19 MS. : Uh-huh. 20 MR. : Okay. Great. And what 21 are your duties and responsibilities as an 22 associate warden? 23 MS. : As an associate warden, I 24 provide advice and counsel to the warden, and I 25 have oversight of specific disciplines as EFTA00110010 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 decided by the warden. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : And I made decisions on policy, 4 and security (Indiscernible *00:06:34) concerns 5 of the institution. 6 MR. : Okay. And were you ever 7 interviewed by either the DOJ/OIG or FBI 8 regarding the Epstein matter? 9 MS. : No. I was not. 10 MR. : Okay. So, this is the 11 first time? 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. Great. And are 14 you familiar with inmate Jeffrey Epstein, who 15 was housed within the MCC in July and August 16 2019, until his death on August 10th, 2019? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : And what was your 19 involvement with the matter? 20 MS. : Well, I have limited 21 involvement. I arrived at MCC New York July 22 4th, I believe, of 2019. And Epstein expired 23 August 10th, I believe. So, I actually, I saw 24 him, like, when he was in the visiting room. 25 And I was part of - there has been some EFTA00110011 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 meetings, exec staff meetings. But as far as 2 extensive contact, or extensive involvement, 3 really nothing extensive due to my short time 4 being at the institution. 5 MR. : Okay. So, you didn't 6 arrive on July 4th? So, I guess you were 7 there, then, the entire time during his stay, 8 though. Correct? 9 MS. : Well, not the entire -. I 10 don't know when he arrived. So, I believe it 11 wasn't the entire time. But it was -. I think 12 he arrived some time in June, if I'm not 13 mistaken. I don't recall. 14 MR. : He arrived in July. 15 Right around the same time. So -- 16 MS. : In July? 17 MR. : -- there might be, like, 18 a day or two difference, but yeah, it was -- 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- it was July and August 21 was when he was there. 22 MS. : Okay. Yeah. 23 MR. : Awesome. So, if you were 24 there in July, I'm just going to briefly touch 25 on the July 23rd, 2019 incident. Do you recall EFTA00110012 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 an incident involving Jeffrey Epstein and 2 inmate Tartaglione on July 23rd, 2019? 3 MS. : When you say an incident, what 4 do you mean? 5 MR. : So, there was an incident 6 that happened in the SHU, where Tartaglione was 7 Epstein's celimate, and Epstein was removed 8 from the SHU and placed on suicide watch, and 9 then psychological observation. Are you 10 familiar with that? 11 MS. : Oh, yes. I'm familiar with it. 12 MR. : And what is your 13 understanding of what transpired? 14 MS. : My understanding is that 15 Tartaglione, I believe he requested, or he 16 called somehow for assistance because I believe 17 he indicated that Epstein was trying to commit 18 suicide. 19 MR. : Okay. And do you know by 20 what manner Epstein was attempting to commit 21 suicide? 22 MS. : I believe he was trying to, by 23 use of either strings, or some kind of 24 clothing, or something as a ligature. 25 MR. : Okay. And is it your EFTA00110013 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 1 understanding that Epstein attempted to harm 2 himself? 3 MS. : Yes. That was my 4 understanding. 5 MR. : And did you hear anything 6 with regard to Tartaglione attempting to harm 7 Epstein? 8 MS. : I know there was, there was 9 speculation, not from Epstein, but there was 10 speculation that, perhaps, you know, there 11 could have been something involved, but 12 Epstein, I believe, made statements that his 13 cellmate did not try to harm him, as well as 14 Tartaglione himself indicated that he did not 15 try to harm him. 16 MR. : Okay. So, your belief is 17 that they are, they were not correct 18 statements, and then the fact it was Epstein 19 that attempted to harm himself, and not 20 Tartaglione? 21 MS. : That is correct. 22 MR. : Okay. And did you have 23 any involvement with selecting Tartaglione as 24 Epstein's cellmate? 25 MS. : No. I did not. EFTA00110014 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : And do you know how 2 Tartaglione was selected to be Epstein's 3 cellmate? 4 MS. : I don't know. I don't, I don't 5 know exactly how he was selected. I do know, 6 after the fact, it was indicated that, because 7 he was former law enforcement, and he didn't 8 seem like he, I guess he didn't - he didn't 9 have anything that, it didn't appear that he 10 would hurt Epstein, that he was suitable to be 11 Epstein's cellmate. But I don't know exactly 12 what the vetting process was for that decision. 13 MR. : Okay. And do you believe 14 that Tartaglione was an appropriate choice for 15 a cellmate? 16 MS. : I'm not going to speculate 17 about that. I do know, at the time that he was 18 a cellmate, that he did not try to harm him. 19 Epstein never voiced any concerns about - that 20 I am aware of - about Tartaglione being his 21 cellmate. But as far as looking at 22 Tartaglione's charges, or anything to see if he 23 had any risk factors that would indicate that 24 he would harm Epstein, that would be 25 speculation after the fact. So, that, I don't EFTA00110015 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 believe I'm in a position to make that decision 2 at this time. 3 MR. : Sure. Okay. And then, 4 what is your understanding of, after this 5 incident occurred, where was Epstein placed? 6 MS. : He was placed on suicide watch, 7 is my understanding. 8 MR. : Okay. Great. And that 9 was immediately following, or on July 23rd, 10 2019. Do you have any involvement with Epstein 11 while he was on suicide watch? And then, 12 psychological observation? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : And where is that 15 conducted? Or where was that conducted? 16 MS. : Where, in the suicide watch 17 cells, you mean? 18 MR. : Correct. Where would 19 have he been housed at the time? 20 MS. : Oh, yeah. The suicide watch 21 cells are on the, they are on the second -. 22 They are on the second floor. On the same 23 floor as the health services department. So, 24 around the corner, and it's down the hall from 25 psychology. From the psychology department EFTA00110016 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 1 themselves. 2 MR. : Great. And where was the 3 SHU located in the MCC? 4 MS. : The Special Housing Unit is 5 located on the ninth floor. 6 MR. : Great. And while Epstein 7 was on suicide watch, and then psychological 8 observation, do you know if he was allowed any 9 visits, specifically any attorney visits, or 10 anything like that? 11 MS. : I do believe that he was 12 allowed to see his attorney. 13 MR. : And do you know if he did 14 see his attorney while he was on psychological 15 observation? 16 MS. : I don't know for certain if, 17 like, watch was - if it was the same day, but 18 am not for certain, 100 percent certain, but I 19 do believe that it did occur. It did occur. I 20 know he was He saw his attorneys very 21 often. Almost daily. And I don't believe that 22 there was any break in visits. So, I would, 23 would say that it probably did happen on the 24 same day that he was on suicide watch. 25 MR. : And how would that work? EFTA00110017 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 If someone is on suicide watch, and then 2 psychological observation, how would they meet 3 with their attorneys? 4 MS. : Typically, if someone is on 5 suicide watch, they do not have visits, and 6 they don't - because they're on watch - they 7 would be under constant, whether it was an 8 inmate companion, or a staff watch. So, 9 typically, a person on suicide watch would not 10 have visits. So, if a visit did happen during 11 suicide watch, I would gather that that person 12 will still be under the same observation 13 protocol. Obviously, another inmate would not 14 be able to watch them because of the privacy 15 factor with the visit, but I would, I would 16 assume that a staff member would be present. 17 MR. : Okay. Now, would they be 18 present on that second floor suicide watch 19 area, psychological observation area? Or would 20 that be conducted in the attorney visit rooms 21 of the MCC? 22 MS. : So, again, typically, visits 23 don't happen when a person is on suicide watch. 24 And because of the placement where suicide 25 watch is, there is no visits that happen in EFTA00110018 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 1 that area. So, all of the attorney conference 2 visits, they happen in the attorney conference 3 area, which is on the third floor. So, any 4 visit, attorney related, would happen on the 5 third floor, in the attorney conference area. 6 MR. : And to make sure I'm 7 understanding you correctly. So, that means 8 you believe that when Epstein was on 9 psychological observation or suicide watch, he 10 would have been, then, transported to that 11 third floor visiting area where he would 12 conduct his visits with his attorney? His 13 attorneys. 14 MS. : That is correct. 15 MR. : Okay. Now, were there 16 any specific - and oh, sorry, before I move on, 17 I guess I should say. So, that is not typical, 18 though? That would have been, like, a kind of 19 something that was a special circumstance for 20 Epstein? 21 MS. : Yeah. Yeah. That is not 22 typical. 23 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 24 there is any prohibition up against that, or 25 not? EFTA00110019 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 1 MS. : I know There are 2 guidelines, I believe, that when a person is on 3 suicide watch, that is where they would remain 4 under constant supervision, and there would be 5 no visits. 6 MR. : Okay. So, I am assuming 7 that answer would be, then, yes, there are 8 prohibitions? 9 MS. : When you say prohibitions, you 10 mean that the agency has guidelines in place 11 that says absolutely not? 12 MR. : Yeah. So, I guess what 13 I'm asking is, should Epstein have been 14 visiting with his attorneys while he was on 15 suicide watch, or psychological observation? 16 MS. : If there was a determination, 17 which I am not aware of, that deemed that it 18 would be okay or appropriate, as far as a 19 psychologist, or someone from the psychology 20 department, indicating that it would be okay, 21 then that would be, you know, that would be a 22 consent. 23 MR. : Sure. 24 MS. : But other than that, I don't 25 believe anyone else would make that EFTA00110020 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 determination to say that he would then be 2 taken off of suicide watch, and then placed in 3 the attorney conference area. 4 MR. : Okay. Great. So, I take 5 it, then, is it that MCC psychology department, 6 are they the ones who determined that Epstein 7 should be on suicide watch, and then 8 psychological observation? 9 MS. : Well, anyone can actually place 10 someone on suicide watch, if that person voices 11 - and when I say "anyone," for instance, if I 12 call a psychologist is not there after hours, 13 someone voices an intent to harm themselves, 14 the lieutenant can make that decision to place 15 the person on suicide watch. But psychology 16 typically is the one that would determine 17 whether someone is taken off of suicide watch 18 because they would have to do a suicide risk 19 assessment, and any other clinical assessment. 20 So, placing someone on suicide watch 21 again - depending on the time, it can be 22 psychology, or it can be a correctional 23 services staff member. And then, the removal 24 would be someone from psychology, to say that 25 this person is not deemed suicide, or, you EFTA00110021 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 know, they are safe to be in general 2 population. 3 MR. : Okay. And then, but it 4 would also - and correct me if I'm wrong - but 5 it did sound like you said that it would have 6 been psychology's decision to allow Epstein to 7 visit with his attorneys while he was on 8 suicide watch or psychological observation? 9 MS. : No. I don't know if that was 10 what actually occurred. But to remove someone 11 from suicide watch, that would be a psychology 12 decision. 13 MR. : So, when you say "remove 14 someone," do you mean, like, just for those 15 hours that he was visiting, or are you talking 16 about when he was removed and placed back in 17 the SHU? 18 MS. : Typically, when you remove 19 someone, it's not for an hour or two. It's 20 typically, you are saying that that person 21 poses no more risk to themselves, so they are 22 off. Basically, they are going back to general 23 population. So, I am not aware of any 24 situation where you remove a person for an hour 25 or two, or for a short timeframe, and then EFTA00110022 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 place them back. 2 MR. : Sure. So, that is kind 3 of I guess what I'm asking is, who makes the 4 determinations? Because you said that your 5 understanding was that he did conduct his 6 attorney visits during that time period that he 7 was on suicide watch. 8 MS. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : Or psychological 10 observation. So, who made the, you know, who 11 had the authority to allow him to conduct those 12 attorney visits? 13 MS. : Yes. I don't know. Again, I 14 don't know who made the ultimate decision for 15 that to happen. But I know the process for 16 removal of suicide watch ,and what that process 17 entails. And that is why I'm saying, to remove 18 someone off of suicide watch, it would have to 19 be someone in psychology, to say that that is 20 appropriate. But in this instance, I don't 21 know, I don't know if that was communicated. 22 If that actually occurred. So, I hope, 23 hopefully that answers the question. 24 MR. : Sure. Yeah. 25 MS. : But (Indiscernible *00:19:29). EFTA00110023 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MR. : We can move on to the 2 SHU, then, when he got removed. So, do you 3 know if there were any specific instructions, 4 by either you, the warden, or other MCC 5 executive staff, with regard to Epstein being 6 placed back in the SHU from psychological 7 observation? 8 MS. : When he was - you are saying 9 when he was removed? 10 MR. : So, when a determination 11 was made that he - for Epstein to be removed, 12 which was on or about July 30th, 2019. 13 MS. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : Were there any specific 15 instructions provided by you, the warden, or 16 other MCC executive staff, with regard to 17 Epstein being placed back in the SHU? 18 MS. : Well, I didn't, I didn't have 19 any specific direction, or instructions to a 20 particular staff member. But I do, I do know 21 that there was a determination made, and who 22 exactly made that determination, typically, 23 when you - high-profile individuals, and you 24 are saying to place them in Special Housing for 25 their care, it is typically the CEO, the EFTA00110024 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 warden, in consultation with correctional 2 services, because it falls under custody care 3 and control. And so, that decision was made to 4 place him in Special Housing. 5 MR. : Okay. Do you know, did 6 you, MCC executive staff, or anyone, including 7 the warden, receive any calls, or was any 8 contacted by lawyers, or a judge, asking for 9 Epstein to be removed from suicide watch or 10 psychological observation? 11 MS. : That, I am not aware of any 12 communication about that. 13 MR. : Okay. And just to circle 14 back. Were you, or executive staff, involved 15 with any decisions to have Epstein removed from 16 suicide watch or psychological observation? 17 MS. : Say that one more time. Say 18 that one more time. 19 MR. : So, that actually having 20 him removed. So, back on July, you know, 30th, 21 when he was removed. Would yourself or 22 executive staff, would you have been a part of 23 the process of actually taking him off of 24 suicide watch or psychological observation? 25 MS. : No. EFTA00110025 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : So, that is solely a 2 psychology decision? 3 MS. : Yeah. Because they are the 4 subject matter experts, and again, and whether 5 someone is off of suicide, or displaying 6 suicide risk factors, typically, it is a 7 psychology thing, to remove the individual. 8 MR. : Okay. And that that's 9 not in consultation with MCC executive staff? 10 MS. : No. To remove someone from 11 suicide watch? No. 12 MR. : Okay. Now, it is our 13 understanding that, after Epstein was placed 14 back in the SHU, or the Special Housing Unit, 15 psychology recommended that Epstein be housed 16 with a cellmate. Do you know if that is 17 accurate? 18 MS. : That, I do know that is 19 accurate. 20 MR. : You do know that it is 21 accurate? 22 MS. : Yes. That, I do believe that 23 that was - Mm-hmm - that is accurate. That it 24 was indicated that he should have a cellmate. 25 MR. : Okay. And do you know EFTA00110026 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 how that information was disseminated within 2 MCC? 3 MS. : And again, there was several, 4 you know, there was meetings, and I don't know 5 what particular meeting it occurred, but I do 6 recall, during one of the meetings, that it was 7 indicated. I don't know if it was during close 8 out, or open up, that it was important that he 9 did have a cellmate. 10 MR. : Okay. So, it was an 11 actual requirement that Epstein have a cellmate 12 while he was assigned to the SHU? 13 MS. : Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. And do you know 15 who made -? Do you know who he was celled 16 with? Do you know what the name of his 17 cellmate was when he came back off of suicide 18 watch, on July 30th, 2019? 19 MS. : Oh, who was his cellmate? i 20 don't know if it was -. I don't know what the 21 (Indiscernible *00:23:19). But I do know, at 22 one point, he had a cellmate named - the last 23 name was . And the first name was 24 I -F-R-A-I-N. But I don't recall if that was 25 his consistent cellmate. But I do recall, EFTA00110027 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 besides Tartaglione, was another 2 cellmate. 3 MR. : And thank you. I have 4 actually been saying So, it's 5 MS. : That's what I think you 6 pronounce it as. It could be my New York 7 accent, but I'm saying 8 MR. : Okay. Hey. That's - _ 9 guess -. Yeah. I'm looking at it, and it's -. 10 I'm going to start saying now. 11 MS. : Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Do you know who made the 13 decision that would be Epstein's 14 cellmate? 15 MS. : That, I am not aware of. I 16 don't know if it was an actual, like, meeting, 17 as far as a placement decision. So, I don't 18 know if it was actually a vetting process, to 19 determine who should be the cellmate. I know 20 itw as indicated that he should have a 21 cellmate. But what that process was, to get to 22 I am not aware of it. 23 MR. : Okay. So, that means 24 that you were not involved with that decision? 25 MS. : No. EFTA00110028 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 28 1 MR. : Okay. And did you work 2 at the MCC on August 9th - which was a Friday - 3 or August 10th - which was a Saturday - that he 4 was found in 2019? 5 MS. : Well, I worked on Friday. My 6 work hours, because of my position, I work 7 Monday through Friday, 7:30 to 4:00. But I did 8 report to the institution the morning of, when 9 I received the call indicating that I needed to 10 report to the institution on that day that 11 Epstein was found. 12 MR. : Okay. So, on Friday, 13 August 9th, you worked from 7:30 a.m. to 4:00 14 p.m.? 15 MS. : Correct. 16 MR. : And then, on August 10th 17 - so, you did depart at 4:00 p.m. - and then 18 you returned after Epstein was found on August 19 10th? 20 MS. : And then, I returned back to 21 the institution -. Okay. I'm trying to 22 remember what -. I received a call around 23 maybe 8:00 or something. I received a call, 24 and then, I arrived at the institution maybe 25 around 9:00 or so. EFTA00110029 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 9:00 a.m.? 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Okay. So, since Epstein 4 was required to have a cellmate, who was 5 ultimately responsible to make sure that all 6 SHU staff were aware of his cellmate 7 requirement? 8 MS. : Oh. Okay. And because - I'm 9 just going to say this - because it's Special 10 Housing, Special Housing is governed under 11 correctional services. It would be the captain 12 is typically in charge of correctional 13 services. And there is a SHU lieutenant that 14 is assigned to the Special Housing on a daily 15 basis. That that is that person's daily 16 assignment. And they are responsible for 17 ensuring that everything is in compliance in 18 Special Housing. And so, there should be some 19 communication, if then, like I said, psychology 20 made a decision that he had to have a cellmate. 21 Everyone was aware of it, but that, like, 22 verbal communication, or insurance, it should 23 have happen in the correctional services. The 24 captain. The lieutenant. And then, that 25 information communicated down to the staff that EFTA00110030 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 actually work in the Special Housing Unit. 2 MR. : Okay. And do you know, 3 at the time, in August 9th and 10th, who the 4 captain at the MCC was? 5 MS. : It was 6 MR. : Okay. And do you know 7 who the SHU lieutenant at the time was? 8 MS. : That, I am not aware of. That, 9 I am not aware of. 10 MR. : Does Lieutenant 11 sound familiar to you? 12 MS. : I know Lieutenant . But I 13 don't know if that was his post at that 14 quarter. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : I am not sure. 17 MR. : Okay. So, that was his 18 post for the quarter. So, ultimately, the 19 information should have come from Captain 20 and SHU Lieutenant They should 21 have provided to the SHU staff that Epstein was 22 required to have a cellmate at all times? 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Okay. And that is a yes? 25 MS. : Yes. That is a yes. EFTA00110031 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 MR. : Okay. Great. And how 2 should have they communicated that? Should 3 have that been verbally, in writing? How 4 should have they made sure everyone knew? 5 MS. : Now, to ensure that, you could 6 have a record of it if you put it in an email. 7 That's blatant, and that can never be 8 contradicted. You could also have verbal 9 notification, in addition to written 10 notification. So, that it could be both. 11 Honestly. It could be both. But if you have 12 it in - you have something that, a bulletin or 13 some kind of an email that went out, that's 14 definitely, you know, something that - that's a 15 record. That's a permanent record. 16 MR. : So, it sounds -- 17 MS. (Indiscernible *00:28:24) 18 MR. : -- you're saying, it 19 really should have been both verbal and in 20 writing, but writing would basically make sure 21 that you are, it's documented/ 22 MS. : Correct. 23 MR. : Is that a correct 24 understanding? 25 MS. : That is a correct EFTA00110032 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 understanding. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : And in addition to that, I do 4 know that the SHU staff did know that he should 5 have had a cellmate. 6 MR. : You do know that they 7 knew that? 8 MS. : I do know that the SHU staff 9 knew that. Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : And how do you know that? 11 MS. : Because the staff are required 12 to make weekly rounds, and I don't -. Now, 13 because of, after the - excuse me - after the 14 fact, you know, he was kind of, like, you are 15 playing a - I'm just trying to recall the facts 16 - but I do recall instances of making rounds in 17 the Special Housing, where staff, it was said, 18 make sure that he had a cellmate, and when we 19 make rounds, that that was - I can - I verbally 20 heard folks say it myself. 21 MR. : And do you remember who 22 was engaged in those conversations, or who you 23 know specifically that knew? 24 MS. : That, I can't recall, because 25 in Special Housing, there is, like, four -. EFTA00110033 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 1 There is -. You have the SHU number one, SHU 2 number two, the three, and the four. So, you 3 at least have four staff, and you have staff 4 that are SHU (Indiscernible *00:29:46). So, 5 there is several staff assigned to the Special 6 Housing Unit. So, and at that -. So, I can' 7 say with certainty who was engaging in a 8 conversation. And then, like I said, and then 9 you have the SHU lieutenant. So, it was 10 several folks that were assigned to the Special 11 Housing. And again, I don't know specifically 12 who said what, but I do know that it was known 13 because I verbally, I heard it, it was audible. 14 I heard it. 15 MR. : While you were in the 16 SHU? 17 MS. : While I was in the SHU. 18 MR. : And do you know around 19 what time of day that would have been? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : No? 22 MS. : Hmm-mm. 23 MR. : And did you hear it more 24 than one time? 25 MS. : Yes. Mm-hmm. EFTA00110034 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 MR. : So, it was something that 2 you had heard on multiple occasions? 3 MS. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : And is that something 7 that, because you were engaged in a 8 conversation, or you just overheard because 9 saying it? 10 MS. : I wasn't engaging in the 11 conversation about Epstein per se, but just in 12 a conversation about what was going on in SHU, 13 while making rounds. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : So, you discuss -. So, 16 typically, when you make SHU rounds, you can do 17 both. You can have, like, a SHU roster that 18 kind of lists all of the inmates that are 19 housed in the SHU. You can, like, look at the 20 board to see who has cellmates. So, sometimes, 21 the conversation is prompted from multiple 22 things, or sometimes inmates stop you at the 23 door, and ask questions, and then you talk 24 about who it is that asked you questions. So, 25 I'm just saying, because of all those EFTA00110035 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 instances, I don't know why it was said about 2 that particular thing, but that was, that was 3 just one of some comments during that day. 4 MR. : But it was a comment 5 specific -- 6 MS. : Yeah. 7 MR. : -- to Epstein's cellmate. 8 Correct? 9 MS. : Yes. Exactly. 10 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 11 there were any plan -. Or sorry. Before I 12 move on, I guess I should specifically ask you. 13 So, you mentioned there was SHU one, two, 14 three, four, but Epstein was found when, you 15 know, during the overnight, I guess the morning 16 watch, which is, you know, I think midnight to 17 8:00 a.m. 18 MS. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : He was found at 20 approximately 6:33 a.m. on August 10th, and 21 then, at that time, there were only two SHU 22 staff in there. 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Specifically, a Tova Noel 25 and a Michael Thomas. Do you know those two EFTA00110036 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 staff members? 2 MS. : I know of them. 3