EFTA00062970.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL AUGUST 5, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00062970  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00062971  3 1 : The recorder is on. My 2 name is , and I am a senior 3 special agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 5 York Field Office, and these are my 6 credentials. 7 : Thank you. 8 : All right. And this 9 interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons 10 employee - is it 11 12 13 : Yes. 14 • • , is being conducted 15 as part of an official U.S. Department of 16 Justice, Office of the Inspector General 17 (DOJ/OIG) investigation. Today's date is 18 August 5th, 2021, and the time is 2:34 p.m. 19 This interview is being conducted at the 20 Metropolitan Correctional Center, or the MCC, 21 located in New York, New York. Also present is 22 DOJ/OIG Special Agent This 23 interview will be recorded by me, SSA 24 . Could everyone please identify 25 themselves for the record, and spell your last EFTA00062972  4 1 name? To start, again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior 2 Special Agent 3 4 : This is DOJ/OIG Special Agent 5 . And these are my 6 credentials. 7 : Thank you, sir. 8 : And can you say and spell 9 your name for the record, and your position 10 title? 11 : Okay. Senior officer 12 specialist. First name . Last name 13 14 : That's fine. We'll ask 15 you more later. And how do you spell your 16 first name? 17 18 : Okay. Thank you, sir. 19 This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into 20 the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 21 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 22 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 23 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 24 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 25 : Yes. EFTA00062973  5 1 : Thank you, sir. This is 2 a form that we give to our voluntary - or to 3 our employees who are requested to provide 4 information on a voluntary basis. It says, 5 United States Department of Justice, Office of 6 the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances 7 to Employee Requested to Provide Information on 8 a Voluntary Basis. "You are being asked to 9 provide information as part of an investigation 10 being conducted by the Office of the Inspector 11 General. This investigation is being conducted 12 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 13 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 14 performance failure and security failure. This 15 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 16 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 17 action will be taken against you if do not 18 choose to answer our questions. Any statements 19 you furnish may be used as evidence in any 20 future criminal proceedings, or agency 21 disciplinary proceedings, or both." And 22 there's a waiver section. It says, "I 23 understand the Warnings and Assurances stated 24 above and I am willing to make a statement and 25 answer questions. No promises or threats have EFTA00062974  6 1 been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of 2 any kind has been used against me." So, you 3 can take a look, if you'd like, at this form. 4 And if you agree with it and understand it, you 5 can sign where it says employee signature, and 6 then print your name where it says employee's 7 name. There you go (Indiscernible *00:02:51) 8 if you'd like. 9 : Okay. Okay. You said sign my 10 name right here? 11 : Yeah. Where it says 12 employee signature. And then, you can just 13 print your name underneath, where it says -. 14 Okay. 15 : My full name? 16 : Yes. 17 : Yes, please. Thank you, 18 sir. Okay. And I am signing where it says 19 signature of Office of the Inspector General 20 Special Agent, and I am printing my name below. 21 Again, this is The date is 22 8/5/21, and the time is 23 : 2:38. 24 • 25 : 38. EFTA00062975  7 1 : :38 p.m. Place, at 2 MCC, New York. Special Agent , can you 3 please sign as the witness? 4 : This is Agent , signing 5 as the witness. 6 : Did you understand that 7 form? 8 : Yes. 9 : Okay. You understand 10 this is voluntary. You can choose to leave at 11 any time. Thank you. Before starting, I'd 12 like to place you under oath. , could 13 you please raise your right hand? Do you swear 14 to tell the truth and nothing but the truth 15 during this interview? 16 : Yes. 17 : Thank you, sir. Please 18 let me know if you don't understand any 19 questions. I will repeat it or try to rephrase 20 it. Okay? What is your current home address? 21 22 (Phonetic Sp. *00:04:26). 23 24 : Thank you, sir. And 25 that's in EFTA00062976  8 1 • 2 : Okay. And what is your 3 date of birth? 4 • 5 : And what is your SSN? 6 : The last four or the whole 7 thing? 8 : The last four is fine. 9 10 : And what is your current 11 cell phone number? 12 13 : And what is your highest 14 level of education? 15 : High school. 16 : High school. And where 17 did you go to high school? 18 19 20 : And when did you graduate 21 high school? 22 23 : Thank you, sir. And what 24 did you do prior to working for the BOP? 25 : 1 used to work for private EFTA00062977  9 1 corrections, CCA. Corrections Corporation of 2 America. 3 : Okay. Great. Now, do 4 you have any military service? 5 : No, sir. 6 : And how long have you 7 served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 8 : February will be 20 years. 9 : Okay. Great. Do you 10 remember your entry on duty date? 11 12 : Thank you, sir. And do 13 you recall when you graduated from BOP 14 training, around, like, the - even the year? 15 : I can't. I don't remember. 16 : Would it have been right 17 away, in 2002? 18 : No. It was a little later. 19 : But you've attended it? 20 : Yes. 21 : And that is correctional 22 officer training down at FLETC? 23 : Yes. 24 : Okay. Great. And what 25 is your current position with the BOP? EFTA00062978  10 1 : I'm a senior officer 2 specialist. 3 : And what does that 4 position entail? 5 : It just means that, you know, 6 I've worked every post, and I've been on -. 7 Worked about every post, and I'm a little bit 8 more trained than the people that's now getting 9 hired. 10 : Okay. So, and it's in 11 the custody side of the house? 12 : Yes. 13 : Okay. Great. What is 14 your grade level? 15 : My grade level is eight, step 16 ten. 17 : Great. Thank you. And 18 are you familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 19 : Yes. 20 : Was he housed within the 21 MCC in July and August of 2019? 22 : I believe so, but I'm not too 23 sure. Because Epstein wasn't a big deal to me. 24 : Okay. And what do you 25 mean by that? EFTA00062979  11 1 : Meaning that, he's just - he 2 was somebody that was being processed through 3 the federal government for committing a crime. 4 : Okay. What about after 5 the fact, that knowing, you know, how much news 6 attention and everything that had been placed 7 upon it, did you think it became a little bit 8 bigger of a deal then? 9 : I guess it was a big deal of 10 how, you know, the job was treating them. You 11 know? Meaning that, you know, he was a high- 12 profile inmate, he shad - you know - he shad 13 been on Ten South, or he shad been on suicide 14 watch. 15 : Okay. And you're saying 16 that based upon the fact that he killed 17 himself? 18 : Yes. 19 : Okay. And we can get 20 into that more later. What was your position 21 at the MCC in July and August of 2019? 22 : If I remember correctly, I was 23 internal number two. 24 : Okay. I'm sorry. Were 25 you a senior officer specialist -- EFTA00062980  12 1 : Yes. 2 : -- as well? Perfect. And 3 they're the same duties and responsibilities 4 that you just described? Basically, like, a 5 very knowledgeable correctional officer? 6 : Yes. Yes. About that. Yeah. 7 : Okay. Did you have any 8 interactions or involvement with Epstein during 9 his stay at MCC? 10 : No. 11 : No. Did you even 12 communicate with him at all? 13 : No. 14 : Did you see him at all? 15 : I seen him once. I think he 16 was down on suicide watch. One time. 17 : Okay. And were you 18 working at suicide watch? 19 : No. I think I was activities, 20 maybe. So, I had to go through, sign the 21 logbook, maybe. I don't -. I can't remember 22 what post, or what post I was on, or maybe I 23 was internal. You know, and, you know, we have 24 a shortage of staff. So, I wear many different 25 titles during the day. EFTA00062981  13 1 : Sure. 2 : So, I can't really tell you how 3 I saw him that particular day, but I know I did 4 see him. 5 : Okay. So, when he was on 6 suicide watch, you remember, you know, you have 7 acted as the activities lieutenant, though, in 8 the past? 9 : Yes. 10 : Okay. Great. 11 : But that day, I can't remember 12 what post. 13 : Sure. Do you happen to 14 remember if you worked at the MCC on August 9th 15 and 10th of 2019? The day leading up to and the 16 day he was - the day of - finding him in his 17 cell? 18 : Yeah. I believe so. The day 19 of? I was certainly here. The day before? I 20 can't remember. 21 : Okay. Great. Do you 22 know what you were doing that day? And I have a 23 duty agent - I have a 24 : Uh-huh. 25 : I'm going to give you EFTA00062982  14 1 the daily -- 2 : I was -. 3 -- receipt, and I'll try 4 to -. Here you go, and here is the daily 5 assignment roster for both Friday, August 9th, 6 2019, and Saturday, August 10th, 2019. I have 7 taken the liberty of just highlighting your 8 name next -- 9 : Okay. 10 : -- position title. 11 : Control one. And internal 12 number two. 13 : So, on August 9th, you 14 were control number one, and then, August -. 15 : No, now, which one is the day 16 of? 17 : And so, we got the day 18 leading up to it will be the 9th. 19 Okay. 20 : And that's where it says 21 that you were 22 Control one. Yes. 23 : -- you were control one. 24 Okay. And that says that you were control one 25 from 4:00 p.m. until midnight? EFTA00062983  15 1 : Yes. 2 : Okay. Great. And then, 3 the following day, it says Saturday, August 4 10th, 2019. You were internal number two, on 5 overtime, from midnight through 8:00 a.m.? 6 : Yes. 7 : Perfect. Thank you, sir. 8 And I'm just going to keep this here, in case 9 we ask you about anything -- 10 : Okay. 11 : -- with regard to, you 12 know, either you or other people that were 13 working on that, on that day. So, as - let's 14 do it one at a time - as August 9th, 2019, you 15 state that you were control number one. What 16 did those duties and responsibilities entail? 17 : Okay. For control number one? 18 : Control number one. 19 Correct. 20 : The duties entail -. 21 : And specifically, we're 22 talking about for that shift, for the 4:00 to 23 midnight shift. 24 : Okay. 4:00 p.m. to midnight 25 shift. Duties entail of just, you know, being EFTA00062984  16 1 the eyes and the ears for the lieutenant. 2 : Okay. 3 : We reviewed the camera, and we 4 watched the cameras a little bit. We popped 5 doors. We answered phones. If anybody is 6 calling, asking about their loved ones that are 7 incarcerated here. 8 : So, you're in the control 9 center, correct? 10 : Yes. 11 : Are you one of two 12 officers in the control center? 13 : Yes. 14 : All right. So, what is 15 the difference between what the control number 16 one officer does, and the control number two 17 officer does? 18 : Okay. Control number one 19 officer. Control number one officer actually, 20 you know, popped the doors, do all the 21 paperwork. 22 : Okay. So, when you say 23 paperwork, like, if they're counts, you fill 24 out the paperwork? 25 : Not the counts. That's the CNA EFTA00062985  17 1 officer, or the internal unit two officer. The 2 control officer, the control officers handles 3 the door, the popping of the doors, listening 4 to the radios. 5 : Answer it. Okay. And 6 so, and who actually is supposed to take care 7 of the counts, then, during that time? 8 : The counts are CNA. Or 9 now/internal two. 10 : Okay. And what does CNA 11 stand for? 12 : CNA is - what is that - Counts. 13 Oh, it's been a long time since I had to, like, 14 pronounce the abbreviation for CNA. But CNA is 15 16 : Is that somebody that's 17 listed on this sheet? 18 : -- internal number two. 19 : Oh, so, CNA is internal 20 number two? 21 : Yes. 22 : Okay. So, in this case, 23 it's 24 : Yes. 25 : All right. So, he EFTA00062986  18 1 actually would be the person that's supposed to 2 be doing the counts? 3 : Yes. 4 : All right. And what 5 about for, on Saturday, August 10th, 2019, for 6 internal number two, from midnight through 8:00 7 a.m. What were your duties and 8 responsibilities? 9 : Yes. That was me, internal 10 number two. My duties was to generate the 11 count. Generate the PPE'. Make any moves, if 12 any inmates move from one unit to the next 13 unit. Answer the phones. 14 : So, when you say inmates 15 move from one unit to the next unit, do you 16 mean, like, keying them into different -- 17 : Yes. Keying them into -- 18 : -- so, keying them out of 19 one, and keying -- 20 : -- key them out of a -- 21 : -- into the other. 22 : -- out of a housing unit, and 23 moving them to the next. 24 : Okay. So, not the actual 25 physical movement -- EFTA00062987  19 1 : Yes. 2 : -- you're talking about 3 electronically. 4 : Electronical. 5 : Okay. In the BOP 6 databases. 7 : Yes. 8 : Perfect. So -. 9 : And also, my duties are to 10 actually go upstairs and do the count. To help 11 out internal with the count. 12 : Okay. So, not only are 13 you taking the count and filling out the 14 paperwork, but you're actually physically going 15 somewhere? 16 : Yes. 17 : And where are you going 18 to? 19 : I have to go - at that time - I 20 had to count Nine North, and unit two. 21 : Okay. And then, so, I 22 know Nine South. What is Nine North? 23 : Nine North is a housing unit. 24 : Okay. So, just a normal, 25 regular general pop housing -- EFTA00062988  20 1 : Yes. 2 : -- housing unit? Okay. 3 So, that's what you were doing in that specific 4 date? 5 : Yes. 6 : Or is that always the 7 internal number two goes and counts Nine North? 8 : Yeah. That's how they have 9 internal number two set up for their post. 10 : So, always counting the 11 same housing units, every -- 12 : Yeah. 13 : -- every shift? 14 : Basically, we help out 15 internal. If you was working as the internal 16 officer, and you needed my help to, you know, 17 because you know that I'm supposed to help you. 18 : Okay. 19 : You would say, hey, , I 20 need you to count nine and two, or just say, I 21 need you to count both sides of 11. 22 : Gotcha. Okay. 23 : And I'm - 24 : So, you're basically the 25 -- EFTA00062989  21 1 : Yeah. 2 : -- control number - I 3 mean, is it control number one, that we're 4 talking about? 5 : Control number two. 6 : Control number one is 7 kind of, like, in charge 8 : Yeah. 9 : -- and then, control 10 number two 11 : Control number one -- 12 : -- is the assistant. 13 : -- do not leave control. 14 : Control number one stays 15 in there the whole time? 16 : Yes. 17 : Okay. Control number two 18 actually is the one that -. Okay. So, the 19 person who is control number Control number 20 one doesn't leave? 21 : Yes. 22 : All right. So, you 23 wouldn't have left then on Friday, August 9th. 24 You would have been in there the whole time? 25 : Yeah. EFTA00062990  22 1 : During your shift. 2 : Yes. 3 : And then, you're saying 4 that on Saturday, August 10th, 2019, when you 5 were internal number two, that's when you would 6 have left your shift, and helped with the 7 counts? 8 : Yes. 9 : Okay. But as their 10 internal number two, you were actually taking 11 the counts and writing in the documentation? 12 : I'm taking count, and also, I'm 13 going upstairs to actually physically do the 14 count. 15 : Okay. 16 : In two houses. 17 : All right. But as 18 control number one, the day before, you weren't 19 actually supposed to be involved with the 20 counts? 21 : No. The only thing I do is sit 22 there. Once you complete the count and you 23 tell me, and we have a good verbal, I announce 24 it on the radio, I log it in the logbook, and 25 then, you say, clear count. I announce it on EFTA00062991  23 1 the radio. Write it in the logbook. Clear 2 count. 3 : Okay. And on these dates 4 - and I'm sorry to pop back and forth - but on 5 Friday, August 9th, 2019, when you were control 6 number one, who would you be primarily be 7 working with? 8 : At that time, shortage of 9 staff, you could have any -. 10 : I mean, on this specific 11 -- 12 : No. 13 date. 14 : You have a different partner 15 almost every day. On this specific day, I'd be 16 working with if he was in 17 if he was internal number two. 18 : Okay. So, the two of you 19 would be working together? 20 : Yeah. But I really don't think 21 I was with that day. I think it was 22 and then, he went home, because 23 goes home at 10:00. Because I was 24 working with , and then he went home. 25 : When did he go home? EFTA00062992  24 1 : I think he went home at 10:00. 2 : At 10:00? 3 : And I -- 4 : So then 5 : -- probably was in there by 6 myself for a few, but I can't remember. I 7 can't remember. 8 : No, that makes a lot of 9 sense. We're going to go over the actual 10 counts because you actually took the count at 11 10:00 p.m. 12 : Okay. 13 : So, that makes sense. 14 So, was he supposed to go home, or he had to go 15 home -? 16 : Yes. He's supposed to go home. 17 : Okay. So, at the 10:00 18 p.m. count, then, as control number one, you 19 actually take it -? 20 : Yeah. Like, when you're in 21 there by yourself, and there's a shortage of 22 staff, you got to play both roles. 23 : Okay. At 10:00 p.m., 24 though, was there supposed to be two people in 25 there? EFTA00062993  25 1 : Yeah. Until 10:00 p.m. 2 : So, that's what I mean. 3 So, like, at the 10:00 p.m., are you -. Only 4 until 10:00 p.m. So, but at 10:00 p.m., the 5 count happens after the person - control number 6 two - leaves. Right? 7 : Yes. So, control number two is 8 supposed to print up everything, and since he's 9 off duty at 10:00, I will take the paperwork 10 that he generated, and do the count for him. 11 : Okay. So, control number 12 one is actually responsible for the 10:00 p.m. 13 count. Correct? 14 : Control number one is not 15 responsible for the count. But if - I mean, if 16 you are in there by yourself, now that's your 17 second job. 18 : Okay. So, who is 19 responsible for it, then? 20 : Whoever is supposed to be 21 posted CNA. So, I'm -. Okay. It's two 22 different. Like, see here, we have a lot of 23 job titles that kind of, like, they took from 24 us. CNA is supposed to be a post. CNA is 25 supposed to be a post that goes in at whatever EFTA00062994  26 1 time control goes in. At this time, when he 2 was on eights, when he was on eights, every 3 shift was 8:00 to 12:00, 12:00 -. My fault. 4 8:00 to 4:00, 4:00 to 12:00, and then, 12:00 to 5 8:00. When CNA comes in for evening watch, 6 evening watch is 4:00 to 12:00. 4:00 to 12:00. 7 When evening watch comes in, control one comes 8 in, control two comes in. Now, somebody, you 9 know, had a big idea and said, hey, you need 10 to, you know, we need to stop generating money. 11 We need to modify the hours. So, we don't need 12 two people in control. So, they modified the 13 hours, and made control number two. 14 : Yeah. 15 : From that time. 16 : Right. So, at this 17 point, though -. 18 : So, I think this is, what, 2:00 19 20 : So -- 21 : 2:00 to 10:00 -- 22 : -- 2:00 to 10:00 -- 23 now? 24 : -- Correct. So, that's 25 where I'm saying, it's, like, if they're EFTA00062995  27 1 leaving at 10:00 -- 2 : Yes. 3 : -- and the count is being 4 conducted at 10:00, and they usually get, you 5 know, they leave usually a couple minutes 6 before, too. It sounds like, at this time, on 7 August 9th -- 8 : Now, I -- 9 : -- you would have been 10 the one 11 : -- took the count. 12 : -- who took the count. 13 : Yes. 14 : So, that's where I just 15 want to make sure we're not getting Because 16 I'm getting confused with all this. 17 : Yeah. 18 : So, on August 9th, 2019, 19 as control number one, you would have taken the 20 count? 21 : Yes. If my name is on that 22 form, I took the count. 23 : Right. And no one else 24 would have been in there with you to take that 25 count -- EFTA00062996  28 1 : No. 2 : -- it would have just 3 been you? Okay. All right. Because I was 4 getting confused. All right. And then, as far 5 as on August 10th, 2019, as internal number 6 two, you would have also taken the count. 7 Correct? 8 : Yes. 9 : The 12:00 a.m., 3:00 10 a.m., and 5:00 a.m.? 11 : Yes. If they filled that post, 12 like, my name is there, so, they filled that 13 post with overtime. So, that was me. 14 : Okay. 15 : So, I did that post. I worked 16 that post. I generated the El. I went 17 upstairs, conducted the count on the two 18 housing units that I have to count, and then, I 19 would go back downstairs, and finish the count 20 on my El, meaning the cross, as units call me 21 up, saying, hey, this is EN with the count of 22 14, and I would say, good count, bad count, and 23 then, cross it off the on paperwork. 24 : Okay. And then, we 25 talked about who you worked with on August 9th. EFTA00062997  29 1 You said that, although this says , you 2 think it's somebody else? 3 : I think it's somebody else. I 4 can't remember. 5 : Sure. 6 : And then 7 : It's been a while. 8 : -- on August 10th, 2019, 9 it says you were internal two, internal one was 10 - does that say 11 : Yeah. He don't come in Oh, 12 well. He's internal. So, that's the person 13 that I'm helping to conduct the count with. 14 : Okay. So, he is doing 15 all -- 16 : He's -. 17 : -- he's actually 18 physically going to the different units? 19 : Yes. 20 : Collecting count slips, 21 and things like that. 22 • : Yes. 23 : And you're assisting, you 24 said -- 25 : Yes. EFTA00062998  30 1 : -- with him. But you're 2 also taking the counts? 3 : Yes. 4 : Okay. Thank you. And 5 who did you report to on these days? Are you 6 always reporting to the Ops Lieutenant? 7 : Yes. 8 : Okay. So then, so on 9 August 9th, you would have been reporting to 10 , I think, both times, because 11 , although he's listed, he was relieved 12 at 10:00 p.m. back then. They were working two 13 hours before the start of their shift. So, 14 started at 10:00 p.m. So, you 15 would have been reporting to 16 then, for both shifts? 17 : Yes. 18 : Okay. 19 : Yeah. I don't - you know - I 20 don't recall (Indiscernible *00:21:20). The 21 only thing I could try to recall was what I was 22 doing because that's all I could do. 23 : Well, per these 24 documents, at least, it shows 25 would have -- EFTA00062999  31 1 : Yeah. It shows her name. 2 : -- been the person you're 3 reporting to. Okay. Were you previously 4 interviewed under this investigation? 5 : Yes. You know, the first time. 6 Yeah. 7 : Were you interviewed more 8 than once? 9 : No. Just once. 10 : Okay. I'm going to just 11 review the report that was written in regard to 12 that interview. I just want you to - I'm not 13 going to provide it to you because it's written 14 on an FBI document - but however, the OIG was 15 present. So, it's our information to have. 16 So, I'll read it to you. And just, if you can 17 just stop me if there is anything in there that 18 is not accurate. 19 Okay. 20 : Okay? So, it says that, 21 " , Senior Officer Specialist at the 22 Bureau of Prisons, Metropolitan Correctional 23 Center," and it says, yada, yada, yada. "Was 24 interviewed at the United States Attorney's 25 Office, Southern District of New York, 1 St. EFTA00063000  32 1 Andrews Plaza, New York, New York. Present for 2 the interview were FBI Special Agent 3 , FBI Task Force Officer, TFO 4 , Office of the Inspector General Special 5 Agent and Assistant United States 6 Attorney . AUSA advised 7 that the interview was in lieu of an appearance 8 before the federal grand jury, and is 9 voluntary. SA provided with an OIG 10 Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested 11 to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis 12 form, which signed, and was witnessed by 13 SA's and . SA retained the 14 original, and a copy is attached in the lA 15 section of this report. After being advised of 16 the identity of the interviewing investigators, 17 and the nature of the interview, provided 18 the following information. worked for 19 Corrections Corporation of America from 20 approximately 2000 until 2002, when he started 21 working for the BOP at MCC. On August 10th, 22 2019, was assigned internal two on the 23 morning watch, which is 12:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. 24 This post helps with the count, getting 25 paperwork and rosters ready for the count, and EFTA00063001  33 1 sometimes helps conduct the count of some of 2 the units. Units Nine South and Ten do not 3 require help for the count because there are 4 officers stationed in those units that do the 5 counts. During the morning watch shift of 6 August 10th, prepared the count by getting 7 the paperwork together. Officer , as the 8 control officer, took officer's phone calls, 9 receiving the verbal count for the 12:00 a.m., 10 3:00 a.m., and 5:00 a.m. counts. When an 11 officer calls into control with the count for a 12 particular unit, control advises if the number 13 was a good count or a bad count. Control has 14 many different functions. So, when an officer 15 calls in a count, control takes the officer's 16 word that the count was conducted. didn't 17 think that control received the verbal count 18 from the Special Housing Unit for that shift. 19 However, he could not say for sure because he 20 wasn't the one taking the calls for the counts. 21 was assisting in doing the counts in the 22 other units. signed off on the counts 23 because during that shift, he was the senior 24 ranking officer. On the morning of August 25 10th, 2019 -." Is that all correct? EFTA00063002  34 1 Yes. 2 : Does that sound accurate. 3 Yeah. It sounds accurate. 4 : All right. Because the 5 person said -. I thought she said that 6 she wasn't taking the calls. 7 : Okay. 8 : She wasn't taking the calls? 9 : Oh, yeah. 10 : So -. 11 : We help each other. 12 : Okay. 13 : Mm-hmm. You know, we help each 14 other. So, if I'm upstairs doing a count, and 15 it takes me a little longer to come downstairs, 16 she will pick up the phone and take the counts. 17 : Okay. 18 : Now, if I go upstairs, and the 19 counts, you know, it's a little faster, I will 20 come downstairs and I will take over the 21 paperwork, just, like, you pass me your 22 paperwork, I will let you do what you do -. 23 Let you finish doing your task, and I will take 24 it right back over where you left off. 25 : Okay. EFTA00063003  35 1 : And I will -- 2 : Because, yeah -- 3 : -- (Indiscernible *00:25:11). 4 : I think her 5 explanation was, she helped with, like, you 6 know, everything else, you were involved with 7 the counts, taking the counts on the phone, and 8 -- 9 : Yeah. 10 : -- and writing the 11 counts. Is that accurate, actually? 12 : Yes. That's accurate. 13 : So, this actually is 14 inaccurate the way it says that she took all 15 the counts, and the phone calls, then? 16 : I mean, I can't really remember 17 -- 18 : Okay. 19 : -- what actually happened, but 20 like I said, we try to help each other out 21 : Sure. 22 -- because we all have 23 : But as your 24 many different jobs. 25 : -- and this isn't, like, EFTA00063004  36 1 an I gotcha moment, this is just - I just want 2 to make sure I understand, because your 3 responsibility on August 10th was actually to 4 take the calls, and take the verbal -- 5 : Yes. 6 : -- counts. Correct? 7 : Yes. 8 : Okay. Great. "On the 9 morning of August 10th, 2019, a body alarm went 10 off at approximately 6:33 a.m. responded 11 to the SHU where the body alarm had sounded, 12 along with another officer. The Nine South 13 officers, medical, and Lieutenant were 14 already at the location. With medical 15 performing CPR. went to get a stretcher 16 and assisted in taking Jeffrey Epstein to the 17 medical unit. When emergency medical surveys 18 arrived, they started performing CPR, took 19 Epstein out to an ambulance, and transported 20 him to the hospital. followed the 21 ambulance to the hospital in another secure 22 vehicle. stayed at the hospital until he 23 was relieved from duty." 24 : Yes. 25 : Okay. doesn't EFTA00063005  37 1 recall any specific state that Epstein was in 2 when he responded to the scene. did 3 recall that Epstein was still loose, because 4 Epstein had to be put in restraints before he 5 could be transported. However, there was no 6 movement by Epstein on his own." So, was 7 Epstein still alive? 8 : Their policy states that nobody 9 passed away inside the institution. Like I 10 said, when I responded, when I got to the post, 11 in Nine South, he was already doing, performing 12 CPR, from medical staff and Nine South staff. 13 : Okay. 14 : They was already performing 15 CPR. So, since they was performing CPR, 16 someone needs to go get that gurney so they can 17 carry him down to medical. So -- 18 : And I understand -- 19 (Indiscernible *00:27:13). 20 : -- that you're not able 21 to say if he was officially alive or dead, but 22 was he showing any signs of life? 23 : I don't know. Once I see 24 somebody performing CPR, that means something 25 bad is going on. So -- EFTA00063006  38 1 : Did you see his eyes 2 open? 3 : -- honestly, I cannot really 4 tell you what he looks like. 5 : Okay. 6 : Because it's been so long ago. 7 And the only thing I know, they was performing 8 CPR. I ran to go get the gurney. Because if 9 you're performing CPR, he's definitely going to 10 have to go down to medical. 11 : Okay. So, you can't 12 recall - even though this was a big incident, 13 and pretty traumatic - you can't recall if his 14 eyes were open, or if he was breathing, or 15 anything like that? 16 : I can't recall. 17 : Okay. acknowledged 18 that he wrote a memo about the incident. This 19 was due to the fact that when one responds to a 20 body alarm, it has to be documented. did 21 not recall any interactions with Epstein prior 22 to Epstein's death." And that's the end of 23 that. 24 : Okay. 25 : Does all that seem EFTA00063007  39 1 accurate? 2 : Yes. 3 : Okay. I'm not going to 4 attach that. All right. So, we are going to 5 go over the count sheets that were done. Oh, 6 shoot. All right. So, these are just the 7 count sheets for the (Indiscernible *00:28:43). 8 This one is I'm going to move this over 9 here. So, this one wasn't you. I'm just 10 showing you, kind of, where I have highlighted 11 just the time, and then, I have, you know, what 12 we're particularly interested in, are going to 13 be RA and ZA. 14 : Okay. 15 : ZA stands for the SHU. 16 Correct? 17 : Yes. Nine South. 18 : The Special Housing Unit. 19 And RA stands for R&D. Correct? 20 : Yes. 21 : All right. Great. So, 22 here is the one for 8/9/2019. It looks like 23 this was the 5:00 a.m. count. Correct? 24 : Yes. 25 : All right. It shows in EFTA00063008  40 1 the SHU, 77, and R&D is zero. And this one, 2 it's 8/9/2019. This one looks like it was for 3 the 4:00 p.m. count. RA says zero. All right. 4 So, R&D was zero. It says the SHU was 76. One 5 in attorney conference. And one in Or I'm 6 sorry. 75 that were actually physically 7 present in the SHU. Correct? 8 : Mm-hmm. 9 : All right. And then, 10 we're going to go back, and now we'll start 11 looking at these count slips, just so we can 12 kind of get an idea. All right. On the second 13 to last page, there's a ZA, it shows 75. I 14 just highlighted that. That was on 8/9/19, 15 time 4:00. It says Noel and signed for 16 them. Correct? 17 : Okay. 18 : And then, attorney. It 19 actually says three. A total of three, because 20 they were from other units. All right. So, 21 and one of them being from the SHU. Correct? 22 : Yes. 23 : All right. So, we've got 24 the 75 on that, 75 there. All right. Now, we 25 get to where you come in. So, this is the EFTA00063009  41 1 10:00 p.m. count. Correct? 2 : Yes. 3 : So, on 8/9/2019, this was 4 printed out at 9:33 p.m. According to this, RA 5 - or R&D - both show zero. 6 : Yes. 7 : ZA - which is the SHU - 8 shows 73 on both columns. Correct? 9 : Yes. 10 : So, is this your 11 handwriting here? 12 : Yes. 13 : All right. And would 14 this be you, "good verbal," 10:30 p.m.? 15 : Yes. 16 : All right. So, that 17 means you took the verbal count, as well? 18 : Yes. 19 : All right. And so, then, 20 we'll go to the - it looks like the second to 21 last page here. So, here we got R&D, 8/19, 22 10:00 p.m. Was this an ? (Phonetic Sp. 23 *00:31:11). 24 : Yes. 25 : All right. And then, up EFTA00063010  42 1 here, we have an NS+1. And then, here, for ZA, 2 we got a 73+1, 8:00, 9:00, 10:00 p.m., it looks 3 like a and a Noel. Correct? 4 : Yes. 5 : Would you be the ones 6 that was crossing off all of these count slips? 7 : Yes. 8 : Do you know why these 9 were not crossed off? 10 : I'm not too sure. 11 : Are these nine S, plus 12 one on the R&D, and this plus one on the ZA, 13 were they your handwriting? 14 : Yes. 15 : So, that is your 16 handwriting -- 17 : Yes. 18 : NS+1? 19 : That nine S looks like my 20 handwriting. Yes. 21 : And do you know what that 22 would have meant? 23 : Okay. Sometimes, they asked us 24 to, you know, at the Sentry, it's too late to 25 punch in the body, oh, well, punch in the EFTA00063011  43 1 inmate into the specific housing unit because 2 the count, you know, the count down states 3 that, after, what? 8:00, after -. If the count 4 is being conducted at 12:00, you have until 5 10:45, I think, to punch in any new inmate that 6 is going to a specific unit. So, at this time, 7 I believe - becaus