EFTA00116060.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 14, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00116060  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00116061  3 1 MR. The recorder is on. My 2 name is nd I'm a Senior 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 5 York Field Office and these are my credentials. 6 MR. Thank you, sir. 7 MR. Z: This interview with the 8 Federal Bureau of Prisons, employee, 9 is being conducted as part of an 10 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 11 the Inspector General investigation. Today's 12 date is July 14, 2021 and the time is 1:14 13 p.m.? 14 MR. Yes. 15 MR. This interview is being 16 conducted at the Metropolitan Correctional 17 Center in New York, New York, also known as the 18 MCC. Also present is DOJ OIG Special Agent 19 This interview will be recorded 20 by me, SSA Could everyone 21 please identify themselves for the record and 22 spell your last name. To start, again, I am 23 DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent 24 25 MR.'Ill.,: This is DOJ OIG Special Agent EFTA00116062  4 1 2 MR.IMIN Lieutenant 3 work for the Bureau of Prisons at MCC 4 New York. 5 MR. MATULEWICZ: Could you just spell your 6 last name for the record? 7 MR. 8 MR. : Thank you, sir. This is 9 an official DOJ OIG investigation into the 10 death of inmate Jeffery Epstein and the 11 surrounding circumstances and you're being 12 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 13 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 14 interview with the DOJ OIG? 15 MR. Yes. 16 MR. : Yes, thank you. All 17 right, so we got that form, it's the DOJ OIG 18 form 11I-226/2. It says, "The United States 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 General Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 Basis. You are being asked to provide 23 information as part of an investigation being 24 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 25 General. This investigation is being conducted EFTA00116063  5 1 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 2 as amended. This investigation pertains to 3 security failure and job performance failure. 4 This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, 5 you do not have to answer questions. No 6 disciplinary action will be taken against you 7 if you choose not to answer questions. Any 8 statement you furnish may be used as evidence 9 in any future criminal proceedings or agency 10 disciplinary proceeding or both." And there's 11 a waiver section. It says, "I understand the 12 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 13 willing to make a statement and answer 14 questions. No promises or threats have been 15 made to me and no pressure or coercion of any 16 kind has been used against me." And as 17 mentioned, this is something that we provide 18 everybody for voluntary interviews, so you're 19 being asked, you know, we just provide these 20 warnings to everyone just knowing it's 21 voluntary, you can stop at any time, you don't 22 have to answer our questions. Do you 23 understanding? 24 MR. Yes, sir, I understand. 25 MR. All right. So, if you EFTA00116064  6 1 want to review it yourself, please feel free 2 otherwise there's employee signature and then 3 employee name below. Thank you for signing, 4 sir. I'm going to sign for the Office of the 5 Inspector General Special Agent. And I'm 6 writing my name, The date 7 is 7/14/2021. 8 MR. 1:16. 9 MR. The place is - the time 10 is 1:16 -- 11 MR. Sixteen. 12 MR. -- p.m. The place is MCC 13 New York. Special Agent can you please 14 sign as the signature witness and place your 15 name as the name of witness. 16 MR. This is Special Ageni 17 I'm signing at a witness. 18 MR. And as I mentioned, 19 Lieutenant I believe, were you 20 interviewed prior by the OIG and the FBI? 21 MR. Yes, I was. 22 MR.•: All right, as mentioned, 23 there's a report that I have here. I don't 24 even think that it's worth going over because 25 there's not really much in it. So, the reason EFTA00116065  7 1 for us to - for interviewing you is to kind of 2 - you were the OIC is our understanding on 3 August 9th, is that correct -- 4 MR. Yes. 5 MR. -- of 2019? And just to 6 kind of ask you questions related to what you 7 know about what happened on August 9th and 8 August 10th of 2019. Before starting the 9 interview, I'd like to place you under oath, 10 Lieutenantl i Can you please raise your 11 right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth and 12 nothing but the truth during this interview? 13 MR Yes, I do. 14 MR. Thank you, sir. If it's 15 something that you don't understand, just ask 16 me to rephrase and I'll try to clarify anything 17 like that. What is your current home address? 18 MR. 19 20 MR. : And what is your date of 21 birth? 22 MR. 23 MR. And what is your social 24 security number? 25 MR. EFTA00116066  8 1 MR. What is your current cell 2 phone? 3 MR. MOM 4 MR. And what is your highest 5 level of education? 6 MR. 7 MR. And where did you go to 8 high school? 9 MR. Graphic Arts in the city. 10 MR. In New York City? 11 MR. Yes, New York City. 12 MR. And what was it called. 13 MR. Graphic Communication of 14 Arts. 15 MR. Okay. Cool. Is that 16 like some kind of like -. 17 MR. It's on 49th Street and 18 10th Avenue. It was a -- 19 MR.S Like a -. 20 MR. -- advertisement high 21 school. 22 MR. : Oh, that's neat. 23 MR. Yeah. It was cool. 24 MR. This is not really to do 25 with the interview, but is that like something EFTA00116067  9 1 you get to, like -. 2 MR. Well I can draw a little 3 bit and do a little bit of graphic design 4 MR. Oh, neat. 5 -- from high school. Not 6 too much but that's what I went to high school 7 for. 8 MR. IMO. : That's neat. What did 9 you do prior to working for the BOP? 10 MR. I was in the United States 11 Army and I worked for a hotel. 12 MR. Okay. As far as being 13 with the Army, when were you in the Army? 14 MR. MOM I started in 1998. I was 15 in the National Guard and then I went active 16 duty in 2005. 17 MR. Okay. When did you - are 18 you still in the Reserves? 19 MR. No, I'm completely done 20 with the military. 21 MR. When did you get out? 22 MR. 2011. 23 MR. Was it an honorable 24 discharge? 25 MR. Yes it was. EFTA00116068  10 1 MR. : And what was your rank at 2 -. 3 MR. Corporal. 4 MR. : Corporal? And what was 5 that? E what? 6 MR. E-4. 7 MR. E-4. Thank you for your 8 service. And then you said you worked for a 9 hotel, how long did you do that? 10 MR. Before the military, I did 11 it for three years. I came back, I did it for 12 one year and then I got this job. 13 MR. Okay. So just prior to 14 being with the BOP 15 MR. Correct. 16 MR. -- you did - and what did 17 you do there? 18 MR. Banquet Steward. 19 MR. : And everything go with 20 leaving there, was everything copacetic? 21 MR. : Correct. 22 MR Okay. How long have you 23 served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? 24 MR. Since 2014, September 21st 25 would make seven years. EFTA00116069  11 1 Seven years? Okay. And MR 2 do you know your specific enter on duty date? 3 MR. September 21, 2014. 4 MR. Thank you, sir. When did 5 you graduate from BOP training? 6 MR. 2015, April. April 2015. 7 MR. Okay. And how long have 8 you been with the MCC? 9 MR. The whole time, seven years 10 11 MR. Okay. 12 MR. in September. 13 MR. : You're here the whole 14 time. 15 MR. Correct. 16 MR. : All right. And you said 17 you're currently a Lieutenant? 18 MR. Correct. 19 MR. When were you promoted to 20 Lieutenant? 21 MR. March 1, 2020, last year. 22 MR. Okay. And what was your 23 rank or title in August of 2019? 24 MR. I was a Senior Office 25 Specialist. EFTA00116070  12 1 MR. Okay. And I have a staff 2 roster here. Here's the - it's going to be on 3 August 9th and then August 10th, it's just for 4 you to refer to, so you don't have to 5 necessarily recall. But what shift did you 6 work on August 9th and August 10th? 7 MR. So, August 10th, which that 8 should be a Saturday, I was off the weekend and 9 Friday I worked from 6:00 to 2:00 in the 10 Special Housing Unit. 11 MR. Okay. And what was your 12 position when you were in the Special Housing 13 Unit? 14 MR. I was an OIC. 15 MR. And what does OIC stand 16 for? 17 MR. The Officer in Charge. 18 MR. And what were those 19 duties and responsibilities as the OIC of the 20 SHU? 21 MR. Pretty much maintaining 22 paperwork, making sure everything is conducted 23 according to BOP policy. 24 MR. Okay. And who was your 25 supervisor? EFTA00116071  13 1 MR. ieutenant Perez. 2 MR. Lieutenant Perez? It 3 wasn't Lieutenant Rice? 4 MR. Well, actually yes, yes, 5 Lieutenant Rice, I'm sorry, yes. 6 MR. And he was the SHU 7 Lieutenant? 8 MR. Yes. 9 MR. Okay. Great. Now I'm 10 going to - we're going to keep these documents 11 in front of you because as we go through the 12 interview, I'll probably ask you about 13 different people and you can just refer to it. 14 When I do provide you - do you have an extra 15 pen? When I do provide you with documents, do 16 you mind just so that for interview purposes, 17 we - it's not to certify anything is accurate, 18 it's simply to say this is the document that I 19 showed you. So can you just like initial and 20 date on the top of each document that I show 21 you, and it doesn't mean, go through the 22 packet, it's just the top page. So, this one 23 for instance, is the daily assignment roster 24 for Saturday, August 10, 2019 and this one is 25 the daily assignment roster for Friday, August EFTA00116072  14 1 9, 2019. And again, it's simply to - you don't 2 have to do each page, it's just -. 3 MR You're not attesting to it. 4 MR. Yeah. 5 MR. It's just 6 MR. Yeah. 7 MR. It's just 8 MR. You're not attesting that 9 it's certified or anything, you know, that it's 10 accurate. It's just to say that these are the 11 documents that we looked at. 12 MR. : Yes, sir. 13 MR. Would you mind - thank 14 you for initialing. You mind just putting the 15 date? It's 7/14 -- 16 MR. 14. 17 MR. -- 2021. Thank you, sir. 18 All right. Are you familiar with inmate 19 Jeffrey Epstein? 20 MR. Yes. 21 MR. Did you work in the SHU 22 while Epstein was assigned to the SHU in July 23 and August of 2019? 24 MR. Yes. 25 MR. During that time, did EFTA00116073  15 1 Epstein have a cell mate? 2 MR. es, he did. 3 MR. Do you recall who that 4 cell mate was? 5 MR. I don't know, it was a 6 Spanish guy, I don't remember his name exactly. 7 MR. So I'm assuming you're 8 talking about the second of the two inmates. 9 MR. The first one was 10 Tartaglione. The second one maybe Perez. 11 MR. Reyes, does that sound 12 MR. eyes, yes. 13 MR. Okay. So -. 14 MR. older gentleman -- 15 MR. Okay. 16 MR. - walked with a cane. 17 MR. And do you know if there 18 was a specific reason why those cell mates were 19 assigned to Epstein? 20 MR. I think Psychology said 21 it's just their category, they're older, same 22 age. 23 MR. Okay. So are you aware, 24 since you said Psychology, did Psychology say 25 that Epstein was required to have a cell mate? EFTA00116074  16 1 MR. Well, we always practice, 2 if somebody comes off of suicide watch, they 3 have to go with a cell mate until Psychology 4 clears them to be alone. 5 MR Okay. 6 MR. But whoever has history of 7 trying to commit suicide has to go with a 8 bunkie. 9 MR Okay. So were you aware 10 that Epstein had attempted to commit suicide on 11 July 23rd -- 12 MR. Yes, I was. 13 MR. -- of 2019? Were you one 14 of the responding officers? 15 MR. o, I was not. 16 MR. Do you know what 17 transpired on that date? 18 MR. No, I do not. 19 MR. Did you hear anything 20 about him either trying to commit suicide or 21 potentially that Tartaglione attempted to harm 22 him? 23 MR. I saw that in the papers 24 that Tartaglione wanted to harm him but all I 25 heard that he was trying to commit suicide. EFTA00116075  17 1 MR. All right, do you - is 2 there any reason for you to believe that 3 Tartaglione was trying to harm him? 4 MR. o. 5 MR. No? 6 MR. hey always got along. 7 MR. They did always get 8 along? 9 MR. Yes, sir. They'd always 10 get along. 11 MR Okay. And then you said, 12 following that attempt, he was placed - Epstein 13 was placed on suicide watch? 14 MR. Yes, with being watched on 15 the second floor. 16 MR. Okay. And what floor is 17 the SHU on? 18 MR. 9th. 19 MR. The 9th floor. Okay. So 20 the suicide watch and the psychological 21 observation area is all on the 2nd floor? 22 MR. orrect. 23 MR. All right. Was he 24 removed from suicide watch? 25 MR. Yes he was, afterwards. EFTA00116076  18 1 MR. Do you have any idea 2 around when that was? 3 MR. That I do not remember. 4 MR. Does July 30, 2019 sound 5 about right? 6 MR wouldn't -. 7 MR Or, I guess I should ask 8 this question first. Is there a difference 9 between suicide watch and psychological 10 observation? 11 MR. Well, psychological 12 observation, you would have all your clothes 13 on. 14 MR. Okay. 15 MR. Suicide watch is because 16 you attempted suicide so you're going to be 17 with a smock, in the nude, just a suicide smock 18 and some booties 19 MR. Okay. 20 MR. - with nothing else. 21 MR. And do you know if the 22 entire time that Epstein was on the 2nd floor 23 outside of the SHU, was he in the suicide watch 24 or was he both suicide watch and psychological? 25 MR. If I'm not mistaken, he was EFTA00116077  19 1 on suicide watch the whole time. 2 MR. Okay. So you believe 3 that he was actually -- 4 MR. Yes. 5 MR. -- in a smock the whole 6 time. 7 MR. orrect. 8 MR. Okay. And what does 9 suicide watch entail? 10 MR. You're being watched 24 11 hours. 12 MR By who? 13 MR By an inmate or staff. 14 MR Okay. And do you know if 15 Epstein was watched by either or, or both. 16 MR. I think he was just by 17 inmates, if I'm not mistaken. 18 MR. : Inmates and what is the 19 inmates' responsibilities while they're 20 watching him? 21 MR. : Well, they constantly 22 observe you in every - they got to annotate 23 every rounds that they do, or every 15 minutes 24 they write down what the inmate is doing. 25 MR. Okay. Did you ever hear EFTA00116078  20 1 of any issues or anything while he was on 2 there? 3 MR 4 MRS No? 5 MR 6 MR And what's the 7 difference, what does the psychological 8 observation? 9 MR. Psychological observation 10 is pretty much is - you're in the same place, 11 just with your clothes on. 12 MR. : And same, you have an 13 inmate (Indiscernible *00:12:35) -. 14 MR.-: You have an inmate watching 15 you at all times, yes. 16 MR. Okay. So for both, it's 17 the same, just the clothes is the only 18 difference? 19 MR. Correct. 20 MR. Okay. Did you receive 21 instructions from anyone regarding Epstein 22 being assigned a cell mate after he came back 23 from the 2nd floor and placed back into the 24 SHU? 25 MR. No. I just did it on my EFTA00116079  21 1 own. 2 MR. : Okay. So no one - you 3 don't recall ever being instructed -- 4 MR. o I -. 5 MR. -- to place him with -. 6 MR. don't recall getting a 7 phone call saying, "Put him -" - like I said 8 before, it's we practice, if you're leaving the 9 2nd floor, you automatically go upstairs with a 10 cell mate. 11 MR. : Okay. So, did you ever 12 receive any kind of information from either 13 Lieutenant Rice or Psychology saying that 14 Epstein was required to be housed with a cell 15 mate? 16 MR. : Well we knew already and 17 Lieutenant Rice pretty much said, "G, don't 18 forget to put him with a bunkie." 19 MR. : Okay. Did you - and I 20 don't believe that you received it directly, 21 but did you ever see this email? It says - 22 sorry, let me see, it's who is 23 that? 24 MR. That used to - she was a 25 Psychologist, one of the Psychologists in the EFTA00116080  22 1 building. 2 MR. Okay. And it says, it's 3 to "Suicide Watch/Psych Observation update." 4 It says it's dated July 30, 2019 at 12:30 p.m. 5 The subject of the email says, "Inmate Epstein 6 is being taken off of psych observation and 7 needs to be housed with an appropriate cell 8 mate." Did you ever see that by chance? 9 MR. : No. I don't remember this. 10 MR. IMINIIIMM Okay. But you knew that 11 he was required to have a cell mate. 12 MR. Yes. 13 MR. : All right. And you said 14 Lieutenant did inform you? 15 MR. Correct. 16 MR. Okay. Did you mind just 17 -- 18 MR. Oh. 19 MR. -- initialing and dating 20 that? So you don't recall ever receiving any 21 other written -- 22 MR. No. 23 MR. -- communication 24 regarding the matter? After Lieutenant 25 spoke with you about him being required to have EFTA00116081  23 1 a cell mate, did you communicate that 2 requirement to anyone else in the SHU? 3 MR. Just in SHU. "All right 4 guys, he needs a bunkie." 5 MR. Okay. And was that 6 something that you communicated only on the 7 date he came back on July 30 or would that be 8 something that you all would communicate 9 throughout his stay in the SHU? 10 MR. Well, we constantly just 11 made sure since he was a high-profile inmate 12 and we actually placed him right on the top 13 tier so where we can see - where the OIC bubble 14 was right on top just because of that reason 15 and we, "Hey, you got a bunkie?" "Yes." 16 Because he was always going to his legal visits 17 pretty much the whole day. 18 MR. : Right. 19 MR. When he came back, made 20 sure he had a bunkie. 21 MR. a: Okay. And would you also 22 work then that night watch in the SHU? 23 MR as I working? 24 MR Not that day, but in 25 between July 30th and August 9th, do you know EFTA00116082  24 1 if you would have worked that night watch? 2 MR. I'm pretty sure I did. I'm 3 pretty sure I did. And all my overtime was 4 always in the SHU. 5 MR. Okay. And do you believe 6 then that everyone who worked in the SHU would 7 have known that inmate Epstein was required to 8 have a cell mate? 9 MR. Yes. 10 MR. All right. And what 11 makes you believe that? 12 MR. : It's part of pretty much 13 the SHU training. 14 MR. Okay. When you say, "SHU 15 training," what training are you referring to 16 and what was taught? 17 MR. Special Housing Unit 18 training is, once again, the policy of what to 19 do in Special Housing Unit, how to conduct 20 rounds, how to deal with an inmate that is 21 coming off of suicide watch and part of our SHU 22 training is the psychologists speaking to us 23 and breaking down and what to do when an inmate 24 comes off suicide watch, what signs to look for 25 and pretty much making sure you're doing the EFTA00116083  25 1 right thing when somebody comes up from suicide 2 watch. 3 MR. Okay. So is there any 4 way that people would know that if they didn't 5 attend the quarterly - you're talking about the 6 quarterly SHU training? 7 MR. orrect. 8 MR. Is there any way that 9 people that didn't - like people on overtime 10 shifts or people that didn't actually get to 11 take that quarterly training yet, would know 12 that Epstein was required to have a cell mate? 13 No, they would not know 14 that. 15 MR. They would not know? 16 MR. hey would not know that. 17 MR. And did you communicate 18 with people though? I know you're saying that 19 they knew based upon training, but did you ever 20 communicate with the people working in the SHU 21 that Epstein was required to have a bunk mate 22 at all times? 23 MR. Well, whoever worked in SHU 24 would pass it down, "Hey, make sure this guy 25 stays with -" - whether it's him or anybody EFTA00116084  26 1 else, I know we're talking specifically about 2 him, but whether it was him or anybody else, we 3 all would say, "Hey, make sure this guy has a 4 bunkie." 5 MR. : Okay. But you can't 6 remember any specific conversations? 7 MR. No. No. 8 MR. Okay. Were there any 9 signs hanging up anywhere in the SHU that said 10 Epstein was required to have a cell mate? 11 MR. No. 12 MR. All right. 13 MR. No that I -. 14 MR. So someone mentioned that 15 -. 16 MR. So, I put one of my own - 17 it was in bright orange paper. I put it next 18 to the computer. It's nothing like from BOP or 19 anything, it was just something between us, 20 that said, "Make sure rounds are conducted and 21 he has a bunkie at all times." Yes, that was 22 me. 23 MR. Okay. So this document 24 I'm showing, it says, "Mandatory rounds must be 25 conducted every 30 minutes on Epstein, as per EFTA00116085  27 1 God." This is what you're referring to? And 2 where was this hanging? 3 MR. On the SHU OIC computer, 4 right next to it. 5 MR. All right. Awesome. So 6 I was assuming that this might be a confusion, 7 but someone mentioned that there was also a 8 color document saying that Epstein was required 9 to have a cell mate. Was that ever on the OIC 10 computer or anywhere else? 11 MR. IIIIIIIII You know what? If it was 12 color, it was - I probably made it because we 13 always had a stack of orange, that was my 14 telling everybody, "Do what you're supposed to 15 do." 16 MR. Okay. 17 MR. But I did this, I know, 18 because I typed it up and I put it up there. 19 Now the -. 20 MR. So this is the one that 21 you remember is the -- 22 MR. Correct. 23 MR. -- one I just showed you. 24 MR. Correct. 25 MR. Okay. And that was on EFTA00116086  28 1 the OIC's computer? 2 MR. There's two computers on 3 the desk. If you see, it's right like you 4 can't miss it. 5 MR. And is -. 6 MR. It's bright orange paper 7 and black lettering. 8 MR. And is that where 9 everybody that works in the SHU, are they all 10 in that same area? 11 MR. Everybody goes to that 12 station. 13 MR. So everybody that was in 14 the SHU or ever worked in the SHU would have 15 seen at least that document that you created? 16 MR es. 17 MR And do you remember when 18 that document was created? 19 MR. I think I did that maybe a 20 couple of weeks after he came upstairs. 21 MR. And is that initially or 22 after he came back from suicide watch? 23 MR. The first time he went 24 down, when he came up the second time. 25 MR. Okay. EFTA00116087  29 1 MR. 'hat - when he was 2 MR. Sometime after July 30th 3 but prior to August 9th -- 4 MR. Correct. 5 MR. -- it would have been up. 6 MR. Correct. 7 MR. Okay. You can't remember 8 - sometime between there. Definitely prior to 9 August 9th. 10 MR. Definitely prior to him 11 coming - or that happening. 12 MR. And do you believe it was 13 at least a few days prior to that as well? 14 MR. : It think it was maybe as 15 soon as he came upstairs from suicide watch -- 16 MR. Okay. 17 MR. - I put it up there. 18 MR. Okay. But certainly 19 prior to August 9, 2019. 20 MR. Correct, yes. 21 MR. Okay. 22 MR. Yes. 23 MR. And you do not require 24 any signs identifying Epstein's cell mate 25 requirement? Was there ever anything on EFTA00116088  30 1 Epstein's cell door, even on July 30th or 2 anything like that? Do you recall anything 3 like that? 4 MRIIIIIIIIIII I mean, we had orange paper 5 hanging all over the place, but I don't recall 6 one saying he has to have a bunkie. 7 MR. Okay. 8 MR. e practice, you come up 9 from suicide watch, you get a bunkie 10 MR. : All right. 11 MR. -- no matter who you are. 12 MR Got a question here. 13 MR. Yeah, go ahead. 14 MR As for God, is that referring 15 to somebody or God? 16 MR. That's just, you know, 17 okay, God is watching us, we got to do the 18 right thing. 19 MR. Okay. 20 MR. So you're referring to 21 this is the question I had before. Are you 22 referring to God himself, not calling the 23 Warden or the Captain or somebody God? 24 MR. Oh no, just God himself. 25 MR. All right. So that's the EFTA00116089  31 1 one sign you can remember that was up -- 2 MR Yes. 3 MR -- requiring rounds but 4 nothing to do with a cell mate. 5 MR. Nothing to do with a cell 6 mate. 7 MR. All right. What is the 8 hot list? 9 The hot list is inmates 10 that have tried to commit suicide in the past 11 and that's posted in Special Housing Unit. 12 MR. Okay. And where in the 13 Special Housing Unit would have been the hot 14 list located on August 9th? 15 MR. Right next to the second 16 phone, next to the cage where we keep MIR 17 (Phonetic Sp. *00:20:31), camera, radio 18 holders. 19 MR.•: Would it have been like 20 on the desk or behind the desk or -. 21 MR 11, we have a hot list, 22 it's next to the phone, that's where it's at. 23 It's a yellow - or it was a yellow binder. 24 MR. Is there only one phone 25 in the SHU? EFTA00116090  32 1 MR. here's three. 2 MR. Three? 3 MR. hree. 4 MR. So one of the phones it 5 was next to? 6 MR. Correct. 7 MR. Was it hanging on the 8 wall? 9 MR. es. 10 MR. Okay. Is it like some 11 kind of a bulletin board type of area or like - 12 . 13 MR. It's a - we have our cage 14 with some of the equipment -- 15 MR. Okay. 16 MR. -- and the phone right next 17 to it, it's right in between. That's where it 18 was before. 19 MR. And do you know if 20 Epstein was listed on the hot list on or around 21 August 9th? 22 MR. If I'm not mistaken, I 23 think he was. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. I think he was. EFTA00116091  33 1 MR. Would have he been listed 2 on the hot list when he came back on July 30? 3 MR. es. 4 MR. Okay. And how do people 5 get placed on - if he was on July 30th, when 6 would an inmate be removed from that hot list? 7 MR. Well, that's Psychology 8 once their finished with their whatever they 9 do, reports or evaluations on the inmate. 10 MR. So how does that work? 11 Is it they - an inmate is removed from the hot 12 list if they're no longer a threat of 13 committing suicide? 14 MR. think that's what it is. 15 MR. Okay. 16 MR. never really looked into 17 that one 18 MR. And does Epstein - I 19 mean, not does Epstein, does Psychology, are 20 they the ones that provide you the hot list? 21 MR. Yes. 22 MR. Who do they provide it 23 to? 24 MR. They usually come upstairs 25 and change it on their own. EFTA00116092  34 1 MR. So they actually post it 2 on the -- 3 MR. Yes. 4 MR. -- board themselves? 5 MR. Yes. 6 MR. Does everybody that works 7 in the SHU know what the hot list is? 8 MR. Yes. 9 MR. Z: Do you believe 10 MR. It's part of our training. 11 MR. Z: As a -. 12 MR. Not just the SHU training, 13 but that's like when you start working here, 14 everybody should know that that's - when 15 Psychology Department comes to see you, they 16 make you - or they tell you to be aware of the 17 hot list. 18 MR. Okay. That's a good 19 point. On your annual training that you take 20 at the MCC, would that hot list information be 21 provided during that training? 22 MR. Yes, it should. 23 MR. What about the training 24 that we talked about previously when we talked 25 - EFTA00116093  35 1 MR. The SHU training? 2 MR. Yes. 3 MR. That definitely is. 4 MR. And in the annual? 5 MR. Yes. 6 MR. So, in the annual, the 7 training that you said, you know, we talked 8 about of, they're not in the SHU training, they 9 might not have gotten it, that same information 10 would have been passed along during the annual 11 training? 12 MR. Yes. 13 MR. And that's with 14 Psychology letting people know that people -. 15 MR. Psychology does their part 16 on the training in their class time and they 17 should have or they should because I think 18 that's what they always do. Psychology - any 19 training, everybody takes it and you go over 20 everything pretty much from when you first 21 start -- 22 MR. Okay. 23 MR. -- on what to do as an 24 officer. 25 MR. So, point being, if EFTA00116094  36 1 people come off of suicide watch and are placed 2 in somewhere like the SHU, during annual 3 training, they tell everybody that takes that 4 training that they need to. 5 MR. Make sure you go over the 6 hot list and deal with who is on it -- 7 MR. And who was your 8 MR. - and if you feel somebody 9 should be on it, just pass it down to 10 Psychology. 11 MR. To make sure those people 12 have cell mates? 13 MR. orrect. 14 MR. Okay. And is that right, 15 if you're on the hot list, unless you have some 16 kind of requirement next to you that you can't 17 be housed with a bunkie, you're supposed to 18 housed with a cell mate? 19 MR. es, yes. 20 MR. Okay. And is that kind 21 of the purpose of it, to make sure that you're 22 knowing that they're not only suicidal but 23 they're also required to have a cell mate? 24 MR Correct. 25 MR : Okay. EFTA00116095  37 1 MR. In comparison to the OIC 2 desk, where would that hot list be? Like if 3 you're looking at the desk right now, where -. 4 MR. So, if I'm sitting on the 5 desk, it should be about not even 10 feet away 6 from me on the next phone. 7 MR. Okay. 8 MR. : And do the other COs that 9 worked in the SHU know that everyone on the hot 10 list was required to have a cell mate? 11 MR. They should. 12 MR. : They should, okay. 13 MR. There's a lot of "shoulds" 14 in this building. 15 MR. Who replaced you in the 16 SHU on August 9, 2019? Do you remember? And 17 here's the -. 18 MR. It should have been Officer 19 and Officer 20 MR. MATULEWICZ: Okay. Do you need to 21 refer to this at all or you just know that from 22 memory? 23 MR. I think I'm right. 24 MR. And I think you're right 25 as well, but I just want to make sure that -. EFTA00116096  38 1 MR. Memory is so far so good, 2 yes. 3 MR. So you're looking at the 4 daily assigned roster. 5 Yeah, it's and MRIIIIIIIIII: 6 7 MR. Anyone else? 8 MR. No, I only saw those two. 9 MR. Was there Joiner also? 10 Did he replace you? 11 MR. So I left that 2:00. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. I knew was coming 14 because that's usually my relief and was 15 a 2:00 to 10:00 officer. 16 MR. Okay. And where did 17 fit in on this? Do you know? 18 MR. He was probably doing 19 just coming in. 20 MR. kay. So we have a memo. 21 Is this - do you - this memo, it says it's from 22 you and it's dated August 12, 2019. Is this - 23 do you recognize that memo? 24 MR No, that's me. 25 MR Okay. And did you create EFTA00116097  39 1 that memo? 2 MR. Yes, I did. 3 MR. All right. Great. So 4 what it says is, it says it's to the Warden. 5 How do you pronounce the Warden's last 6 MR. 7 MR. It says, "On 8 Friday, August 9, 2019 at approximately 1:50 9 p.m., I, SOS passed on to oncoming 10 staff member Officer and present shift 11 staff SOS and Officer that inmate 12 Reyes, number 85993-054, was going WAS and 13 possibly may not return. Also that inmate 14 Epstein will be needing a cell mate upon 15 arrival from his attorney visit." What does 16 WAS mean? 17 MR. With all belongings. 18 MR. : Okay. And is that -. 19 MR. That's when you leave the 20 institution. 21 MR Okay. Great. And do you 22 recall actually passing that information on to 23 24 MR. I - 25 probably did speak to them, but in -. EFTA00116098  40 1 MR. Okay. So I guess I 2 should ask, the way that I interpreted this was 3 that you told-but those other people were 4 present in the SHU. Did you have a 5 conversation then, you believe, with both 6 and 7 MR. EMI: I had a conversation with 8 because he relieved me at 2 o'clock. 9 MR. Okay. 10 MR. And I told him, "Make sure 11 you pass it down to - but I don't - I know I 12 spoke t. because I was still town driver 13 and I saw him outside, but , I don't 14 remember seeing him. 15 MR Okay. What do you 16 remember - what specifically do you recall 17 saying to 18 MR. Like, "Reyes is going, he's 19 leaving, so make sure Epstein gets a bunkie." 20 MR. : And what do you remember 21 specifically telling to 22 MR. Same thing. "Hey, you 23 know, I think Reyes is going to be gone, 24 Epstein needs a bunkie." "All right. 25 MR. Okay. And again, who is EFTA00116099  41 1 inmate Efrain Reyes? 2 MR. That was Epstein's bunkie. 3 MR. Up until August 9th it 4 sounds like? 5 MR. orrect. 6 MR. Okay. And do you know 7 how he was selected to be Epstein's cell mate? 8 MR. Through, again, Psychology 9 recommends, "Oh, they're about the same age. 10 They both are pretty much have -" - not similar 11 charges, but, "This guy is an older man. This 12 guy has a cane. There's not going to be any 13 problems, we should put them in together." 14 MR. Are you aware of anything 15 like the Captain and the Warden and even the 16 Regional Director going through and vetting 17 Epstein's cell mates or are you unaware of 18 that? 19 MR o. 20 MR All right. So, you're 21 understanding was that Psychology made that 22 determination? 23 MR Correct. 24 MR Okay. When did you 25 become aware that inmate Efrain Reyes was EFTA00116100  42 1 likely to be removed from the MCC on August 9, 2 2019? 3 MR. When I walked both of them 4 to the door. 5 MR. And what time would that 6 have been? 7 MR. I would say - because R&D 8 usually starts calling people down around 9 9 o'clock, 9:00, 9:30, and that's pretty much 10 around the same time that Epstein is walking to 11 go to his legal visit. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. I won't - well, it's not me 14 alone with the two of them, but we walked 15 towards the door and I told him he needed - he 16 was going to get a bunkie. 17 So were Reyes and Epstein 18 both together? 19 MR orrect. 20 MR And you're the one who 21 was - one of you that was escorting them? 22 MR. Yes. 23 MR. And at that point, at 24 9:00 a.m. on August 9th, you did know that 25 Reyes wasn't coming back or likely -. EFTA00116101  43 1 MR. I knew he was going 2 downstairs. So, WAB means with all belongings. 3 You go to R&D, you're supposed to leave within 4 probably an hour and not come back, but there 5 has been times that they go downstairs with all 6 their stuff and they come right back upstairs. 7 Whether it's to SHU or to a unit. 8 MR Okay. 9 MR So -. 10 MR So, are you confident 11 that Reyes was actually WAB at 9:00 a.m.? 12 MR. No, I know I was walking 13 him downstairs to leave the building at that 14 time. 15 MR. Was he with all 16 belongings at that time? 17 MR. Yes. 18 MR. So he -- 19 MR. Yes. 20 MR. -- already - he did have 21 his belongings? 22 MR. He did have his belongings. 23 He was ready to go. But again, it's not always 24 guaranteed that once we're taking downstairs, 25 even though they call us and tell us, "Oh, this EF