EFTA00112365.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 AUGUST 4, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES EFTA00112365 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00112366 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 MR. : The recorder is on. 2 Okay. My name is , and I am a 3 special agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General. New 5 York Field Office, and these are my 6 credentials. 7 MR. : Yes, sir. 8 MR. : All right. This 9 interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons 10 employee, - it's 11 right? - and is being 12 conducted as part of an official U.S. 13 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 14 General, DOJ/OIG investigation. Today's date 15 is August 4, 2021, and the time is 2:17 p.m. 16 This interview is being conducted at the 17 Metropolitan Correction Center, or MCC, located 18 in New York, New York. Also present is DOJ/OIG 19 Special Agent, . This interview 20 will be recorded by me, SSA 21 Could everyone please identify themselves for 22 the record, and spell your last name? To start, 23 again, I am DOJ/OIG Senior Special Agent 24 25 MR. : This is special agent EFTA00112367 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 Department of Justice/OIG. And last 2 name is . These are my credentials. 3 MR. -: 4 Facilities manager. MCC, New York. BOP. 6 MR. : Thank you, sir. This is 7 an official investigation into the death of 8 inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the surrounding 9 circumstances, and you are being asked to 10 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 11 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 12 the DOJ/OIG? 13 MR. : Yes. 14 MR. : Thank you, sir. This is 15 the United States Department of Justice, Office 16 of the Inspector General, Warnings and 17 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 18 Information on a Voluntary Basis. "You are 19 being asked to provide information as part of 20 an investigation being conducted by the Office 21 of the Inspector General. This investigation 22 is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector 23 General Act of 1978, as amended. This 24 investigation pertains to job performance 25 failure, or security failure." I'm sorry, "and EFTA00112368 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 security failure. This is a voluntary 2 interview. Accordingly, you do not have to 3 answer questions. No disciplinary action will 4 be taken against you if you choose not to 5 answer questions. Any statements you furnish 6 may be used as evidence in any future criminal 7 proceedings, or agency disciplinary 8 proceedings, or both." Then there's a waiver 9 section, saying, "I understand the Warnings and 10 Assurances stated above and I am willing to 11 make a statement and answer questions. No 12 promises or threats have been made to me, and 13 no pressure or coercion of any kind has been 14 used against me." And there's an employee 15 signature. If you want to take a look, and you 16 agree, you can sign right there. Then, there's 17 employee name, where you can just print your 18 name, then I will fill out the rest. Thank 19 you, Mr. , for printing and signing your 20 name. 21 MR. : No problem. The time? 22 MR. : Yeah, I can put that. 23 So, thank you, and also for dating it, 24 8/4/2021. I will put the time at 2:20 p.m. 25 And the place is MMC New York. And I'm EFTA00112369 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 signing. Again, this is 2 I'll do my name. Special Agent could 3 you please sign as the witness, and print your 4 name as the witness. 5 MR. : This is 6 signing on the signature for the witness. 7 MR. : And did you understand 8 the OIG form? 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : Okay. Just remember, 11 this is voluntary. You can leave at any time. 12 Before starting the interview, I'd like to 13 place you under oath. Mr. could you 14 please raise your right hand? Do you swear to 15 tell the truth and nothing but the truth during 16 this interview? 17 MR. : Yes, I do. 18 MR. : Okay. Thank you, sir. 19 Please let me know if you don't understand any 20 questions. I'll try to repeat them or rephrase 21 them. Okay? What is your current home address? 22 MR. -: 23 24 MR. : Okay. And what is your 25 date of birth? EFTA00112370 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. -: 2 MR. : What's your social 3 security number? 4 MR. -: 5 MR. : And what is your current 6 cell phone number? 7 MR. -: 8 MR. : And what is your highest 9 level of education? 10 MR. : Some college. 11 MR. : And where did you go to 12 college? 13 MR. : Saint Francis. 14 MR. : Where is that located? 15 MR. : Remsen Street. Brooklyn, New 16 York. 17 MR. : And what did you study? 18 MR. : Criminal justice. 19 MR. : Any degrees? Like, 20 associates degree, or anything? 21 MR. : No. 22 MR. : And when was your last 23 time that you went there? 24 MR. : Oh. 25 MR. : It was a long time ago? EFTA00112371 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : Like, late 90s? 3 MR. : Yeah. Probably. I'm trying 4 to -- 5 MR. : 1990s? 6 MR. : -- '93. 7 MR. : '93. Okay. What did you 8 do prior with working for the BOP? 9 MR. : I worked for NYPD. 10 MR. : Oh, yeah? For how long? 11 MR. : Just under five years. 12 MR. : Great. And what, from 13 around when to when? 14 MR. : From - I left there in 2004. 15 So, 1999, 2000. 16 MR. : Great. And did you leave 17 under favorable circumstances? 18 MR. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : Any military service? 20 MR. : No. 21 MR. : Okay. And how long have 22 you served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 23 with the BOP? 24 MR. : I started in 2004. April of 25 2004. 17 years. EFTA00112372 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. And do you know 2 when your entry on duty date was? 3 MR. ~: • 4 MR. : Well, that's nice and 5 easy to remember. Nice. When did you graduate 6 from BOP training? 7 MR. : Oh. 8 MR. : Would it have been in 9 '04? 10 MR. : Yeah, yeah. It was. It was 11 a holiday, too. May. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : May. 14 MR. : But so, right away, you 15 would have wanted the training? 16 MR. : Uh-huh. Yeah. A couple 17 months. 18 MR. : It's not really 19 important, but 2004. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Okay. And what is your 22 current position with the BOP? 23 MR. Facility manager. 24 MR. : And what does that pos 25 itionr description entail? EFTA00112373 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 MR. : Oversee the facilities 2 department, which is all the trades, plumbing, 3 comtechs, electricians, plumbers. Every trade. 4 General maintenance. 5 MR. : About how many people are 6 underneath your supervision? 7 MR. : Currently, 16. 8 MR. : 16. 9 MR. : 15 or under. 10 MR. : And how many should be? 11 Is that fully staffed? 12 MR. : No. There's two open. That 13 will be - yes - 16 will be fully staffed. 14 Right now, I have two less. 15 MR. : Okay. And who do you 16 report to? 17 MR. : Associate wardens. 18 MR. : Okay. And at the time, 19 who was the associate wardens? 20 MR. _; , at that time. 21 MR. : At this time. Sorry. 22 MR. : Oh, I'm sorry. Right now, 23 it's , is my associate warden. 24 MR. : Okay. Great. So, are 25 you familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? EFTA00112374 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : Was he housed within the 3 MCC, in July and August of 2019? 4 MR. : I believe so. 5 MR. : What was your position at 6 the MCC in July and August of 2019? 7 MR. : Facility manager, then. 8 MR. : Okay. And so, but that 9 was the same duties and responsibilities which 10 you just described? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : And has that description, 13 position description changed at all since 14 MR. : No. 15 MR. that time? Did you 16 have any interactions or involvement with 17 Epstein during his stay at the MCC? 18 MR. : No. 19 MR. : No? None at all? And did 20 you work at the MCC on August 9th and 10th of 21 2019? 22 MR. : August -? 23 MR. : So, August 9th. And so, 24 do you -- 25 MR. : No. EFTA00112375 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 1 MR. : -- remember when -? No? 2 MR. : I was on vacation. 3 MR. : You were on vacation. Do 4 you know if you had anybody acting in your 5 place, as the supervisor? 6 MR. : Usually, if I go out, I 7 usually put something else that's possibly -. 8 There's an out to memo. 9 MR. : Like, an out of office 10 assistant? 11 MR. : For emails. Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : That would -. At this time, 14 I don't remember exactly. It could have been 15 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:15), or one of 16 the foreman, plumber foreman. 17 MR. : So, . Would 18 he be somebody that you would frequently put in 19 your place as acting? 20 MR. : He just started, also, and so 21 did I. So, I was very new with everyone here. 22 MR. : Okay. Were there other 23 people that you would also 24 MR. : There is. 25 MR. : -- ask? EFTA00112376 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : There is. 2 MR. : Who else would be 3 responsible for acting, if it wasn't 4 ? 5 MR. -. . , at that time. 6 MR. : And who is ? 7 MR. : A female general maintenance. 8 I think is her name. 9 MR. ? 10 MR. : 11 MR. : Okay. And , 12 that -? 13 MR. -. . . 14 MR. : So, if they were acting, 15 would they take on your role? 16 MR. : Correct. 17 MR. : They would? And do 18 everything that you would do? 19 MR. : They should. 20 MR. : Okay. Are you aware that 21 the cameras were not working properly within 22 the MCC on August 9th and 10th of 2019? 23 MR. : No. Not that -. No. 24 MR. : Are you aware at this 25 time? EFTA00112377 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Now. Yeah. Yeah. 2 MR. : At the time, you were 3 not? 4 MR. : No. 5 MR. : But now. Okay. And who 6 was responsible for making sure the cameras 7 were working properly on August 9th and 10th of 8 2019? 9 MR. : At that time, there was one 10 only Comtech, I believe, which was 11 MR. : Okay. So, I'm assuming 12 now you know, but please explain what happened, 13 and why the cameras weren't working properly on 14 August 9th and 10th of 2019. So, do you know 15 now, after the fact? 16 MR. : Why they weren't working? 17 MR. : Correct. 18 MR. : Failed recorders. Hard 19 drives. The system was old, from what I 20 understand. 21 MR. : Okay. And are you 22 familiar, at all, with that kind of, like, are 23 you familiar with the cameras, or are you, 24 like, technically -? 25 MR. : I am a - I was a Comtech. EFTA00112378 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. : So, you are familiar with 4 that? 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. So, do you know, 7 like, was it something that happened often? 8 MR. : Here, I don't know. But yes, 9 so, if hard drives crap out, if more than two 10 crap - die, then the system goes down. 11 MR. : So, did you -- 12 MR. : For that recorder. 13 MR. : -- at the time, after you 14 found out that the cameras were not recording 15 on August 9th and 10th, did you look into the 16 matter? 17 MR. : I don't even know. I asked 18 questions and stuff, but I believe I don't 19 know at what time the recorders were taking 20 from the -. The FBI took them. 21 MR. : Right. But I guess, did 22 you ask - like, it sounds like - did you 23 ask about, like, hey, what happened? Why 24 it's -- 25 MR. : Correct. EFTA00112379 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- not recording? 2 MR. : Correct. And I -- 3 MR. : And what did you learn? 4 MR. and that's what I was 5 given, that they went down, the recorder went 6 down. 7 MR. : Did he say when they went 8 down? 9 MR. : I do not know. 10 MR. : Did you ask if he 11 reported the information to anyone. 12 MR. : I don't - honestly - I don't 13 remember if I did or didn't. 14 MR. : Would that have been a 15 topic? 16 MR. : Of course. Of course, tha-. 17 Knowing me, I would have asked a lot more 18 questions. 19 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : But I can't say 100 percent 21 that I remember. 22 MR. : Being such a big deal, 23 though, you don't remember if that was, like, a 24 -? 25 MR. : No. Honestly, everything is EFTA00112380 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 such a blur right now, with everything. But 2 knowing me, I probably did ask, and that's - 3 because there was a camera project that was in 4 play already. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : And when I came here, the big 7 focus was heating and electric, due to 8 everything that happened at another 9 institution. So, when I got here, all my focus 10 was that stuff. And as things started getting 11 better on the stuff that I was looking at, to 12 take care of, which is the heating and the 13 cooling, and the lights for the population, 14 then I would work, too, some other things. And 15 start getting those things working. 16 MR. : So, the cameras was on a 17 list, but just down the list? 18 MR. : Was. It was - I think in 19 2018, they had a camera project started - and 20 it was in the process of bidding for materials 21 and stuff like that. 22 MR. : So, when you say "the 23 process," you just mean, like, no cameras were 24 being replaced as of yet, you were talking 25 about, like, just getting that process rolling EFTA00112381 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 to -- 2 MR. : Yes. 3 MR. : -- to get new cameras? 4 MR. : Correct. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Correct. 7 MR. : And why were new cameras 8 needed? 9 MR. : Oh, they were old, 10 antiquated. 11 MR. : So, were they frequently 12 going down? Or just with -? 13 MR. : That's just hearsay, that I 14 was told, yes, that that was an issue that was 15 here. 16 MR. : And remind me again, when 17 did you become the facilities manager? 18 MR. : May. 19 MR. : May of 2019? 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : So, from May 2019 until 22 August 10th of 2019, do you recall the cameras 23 going down, and not recording? 24 MR. : I wouldn't know 100 percent. 25 Today, I could tell you that because I do a EFTA00112382 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 daily check of the cameras. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Back then, I did not. 4 MR. : But back then, when this 5 happened, did you look into it to find out, 6 were they constantly going down? 7 MR. : No. Not that I remember. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : If I did. 10 MR. : So, this wasn't anything 11 like the warden, or any kind of review team 12 came in and said, hey, can you get some 13 information about, like, what's going on with 14 this camera system, and why wasn't it recorded? 15 MR. : No. I don't remember ever 16 getting asked. No. 17 MR. : Okay. So, when did you 18 first become aware that the cameras in the MCC 19 were not working properly on August 9th and 20 10th of 2019? 21 MR. : Maybe when I came back from 22 vacation, it was. 23 MR. : So, no one contacted you 24 while you were on vacation? 25 MR. : No. EFTA00112383 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 MR. : So, did electronic 2 technician, , inform you that the 3 cameras were not working properly on August 4 9th? 5 MR. : I'm sure after I came back 6 and I asked -- 7 MR. : But he didn't -- 8 MR. : -- questions. 9 MR. : -- he didn't call you on 10 August 9th -- 11 MR. : No. 12 MR. : -- and tell you? 13 MR. : No, no, no. 14 MR. : Do you know if 15 electrician technician, 16 informed anyone that the cameras were not 17 working properly on August 9th? 18 MR. : I do not know. 19 MR. : Okay. So, if he says he 20 informed a supervisor on August 9th, prior to 21 leaving, that the cameras not, in fact, 22 recording, who would have he told? 23 MR. : You know what? He might have 24 told, but - because now that you 25 said it like that - he might have told EFTA00112384 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 I don't know if he came to the 2 institution. And he might have came to the 3 institution that day. But I'm not 100 percent 4 sure. 5 MR. : So, he was here on the 6 9th. 7 MR. : He was. 8 MR. : And he noticed that they 9 weren't on. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : What he's saying is that, 12 he noticed that they were down. But he - and 13 he notified his superiors, his supervisors, but 14 he noticed right before then, of his shift at 15 2:00 p.m., and he was told fix it tomorrow when 16 you come in at 6:00 a.m. Do you know anything 17 about that? 18 MR. : No. I did not know that. 19 MR. : So, if he says that he 20 informed his supervisor, do you know who would 21 have been that he would have informed? 22 MR. : Yeah, all the other people 23 could know is either the person I left acting, 24 or the AW. 25 MR. : All right. And EFTA00112385 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 was the AW? 2 MR. : Correct. 3 MR. : Was Edge also an AW? 4 MR. : She was. 5 MR. : Okay. So, would it be 6 or Edge, or just 7 MR. : So, was over 8 us. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : But it could have been either 11 one. 12 MR. : All right. So, 13 could potentially be an option. So, if 14 was your acting, he says that he 15 didn't tell him. did not call you or 16 tell you. So - all right - so, neither. So, 17 and are you positive of that, that he did not 18 inform you? 19 MR. : I'm pretty sure. Yes. 20 MR. : Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. 21 MR. : I mean, it was a long time 22 ago. I know when I found out, I did call 23 to see if they need me back 24 sooner, off of my vacation. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00112386 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MR. : That, I do remember. If I 2 got a phone call from I know we did 3 speak, I don't remember if it was in person or 4 on the phone. That, I don't remember. 5 MR. : So, just - and again 6 have you heard, like, in the news how this is, 7 like, such a big deal, and people are talking 8 about, like, if -- 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : -- how are there no 11 cameras recording? 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : So, I know it was a long 14 time ago, but I just want you to try to, like, 15 remember, like -- 16 MR. : Uh-huh. 17 MR. : -- hey, this was a huge 18 part of this, was the camera thing. So, 19 whatever you can remember, that would be, you 20 know, great, but as far as, like, him notifying 21 you, you do not remember? 22 MR. : I do not remember him 23 notifying -- 24 MR. : And he's not - and I'm 25 not saying -- EFTA00112387 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MR. -- (Indiscernible *00:15:05). 2 MR. : -- that he's -- 3 MR. : No, I know that. 4 MR. : -- he said he did. This 5 is just one of those things. 6 MR. : I don't remember getting a 7 call from him, and I know it's not like him to 8 call me, because I've had to talk to him for 9 communication. 10 MR. : So, you've had to say, 11 you need to communicate more? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : And what -- 14 MR. : So, that's -. 15 MR. : -- was that prior to that 16 time, too? 17 MR. : Oh, not so much, because I 18 was brand-new, really, to But there is 19 times that, yes. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : His communication skills need 22 to -. 23 MR. : Okay. And then, as far 24 as that with , though, I mean, was 25 that at all discussed, like, informed EFTA00112388 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 her, or anything like that? 2 MR. : No. It was too new. As soon 3 as - I could tell you, this part, I do 4 remember. My uncle came down the stairs and 5 said it, of the house that we were renting, and 6 I said, no, man, really? And that's when I 7 called the institution, and spoke to her. 8 said, if you need me to come in, let me know. 9 I'm in South Carolina. 10 MR. : Nice of you. What did 11 she say? 12 MR. : No. 13 MR. : Okay. Do you know 14 anything about being sent home on August 15 9th, 2019, knowing that the cameras were not 16 working properly? Would have that been 17 something that someone would have done? Would 18 have someone said, don't worry about it, take 19 care of it tomorrow? 20 MR. : Possibly. 21 MR. : Yeah. So then, would 22 that not surprise you, then, if someone said, 23 that's fine? 24 MR. : It all depends on -. I don't 25 think today, after everything, I think they EFTA00112389 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 learned that those are things that need to get 2 fixed. 3 MR. : Yup. 4 MR. : But it wouldn't surprise me. 5 Depending on the budget, and overtime, and 6 restrictions, and what they're allowed. You 7 know, it wouldn't surprise me. I know I 8 wouldn't do it. I've learned a lot from other 9 issues, and that's one that I learned. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. : That's just getting done and 12 - or at least bringing to the next person's 13 level. 14 MR. : Okay. Do you know if 15 was instructed on August 9th, 2019 to 16 fix the cameras the following day, on August 17 10th, 2019? 18 MR. : I don't -- 19 MR. : You don't. 20 MR. : I don't know. 21 MR. : No. Do you believe, if 22 that was what was done, was that an acceptable 23 course of action? 24 MR. : It depends on what camera it 25 was, what -. EFTA00112390 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : So, if he's saying 2 there's 150 cameras, 75 of them were down and 3 not recording, and -- 4 MR. : No. 5 MR. : -- he's told just fix it 6 tomorrow when you report to duty, do you think 7 that would be acceptable? 8 MR. : No. I don't -. No. He 9 should get that recorded -- 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. up and running. 12 MR. : All right. And knowing 13 that information, do you believe that 14 would have sent him home if she 15 is, in the fact, the person that he notified? 16 MR. : Yeah. I don't think -- 17 MR. : Right. 18 MR. : -- anybody would have sent 19 someone home on that night. I don't think so. 20 MR. : Okay. So, do you have 21 any reason to believe that would lie 22 about that, to say, like, yup, I definitely 23 told a supervisor, I can't recall what the 24 supervisor is, but I definitely told the 25 supervisor, and they told me to go home, and EFTA00112391 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 fix it the next day? 2 MR. : I don't see him as a liar, 3 but I don't -- 4 MR. : Have you ever caught him 5 in a lie? 6 MR. : I never caught him in a 7 lie. But just very - he's very -. Lax, I 8 don't know, lax. He doesn't take any -. No 9 urgencies. 10 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. He's a very 11 laidback guy. Okay. So, do you know who the 12 first person to find out that the cameras were 13 not working? Do you know who that would have 14 been? 15 MR. : I don't know. No. 16 MR. : No. And you said you 17 didn't -. You found out from 18 calling you? 19 MR. : No, no. 20 MR. : Oh, you didn't even know 21 at that time? 22 MR. : No. No, I don't - no - 23 don't remember. I don't remember how or when I 24 found out. At some point, I did, and I don't 25 know if it was when I came back, but it EFTA00112392 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 definitely wasn't at that first phone call I 2 had with the institution. 3 MR. : And were you ever 4 interviewed by the FBI, or anybody about this? 5 Or the OIG. 6 MR. : Not about this. 7 MR. : No, not about - and not 8 about the cameras or anything? 9 MR. : Oh, yeah. I - yeah - 10 definitely was involved with them transporting 11 the recorders and stuff, and being in the room. 12 MR. : But were you interviewed? 13 MR. : Oh, no, no. 14 MR. : No. So, this is the 15 first time you're being interviewed 16 MR. : Oh, yeah. 17 MR. : -- on this matter? Okay. 18 Aside from , who had access to the camera 19 system? So, I guess I should preface this. Not 20 just for looking at the cameras on the TV, but 21 where would have the camera system been housed, 22 that could have -- 23 MR. : The S -- 24 MR. : -- could have knocked 25 them offline? EFTA00112393 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- the SIS office. 2 MR. : Is that the only place 3 that could have -- 4 MR. : At that time. 5 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 6 *00:19:41)? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : Okay. And would the SIS 9 individuals, the technicians, and the 10 lieutenants, and the SIA, would they have the 11 ability to access that camera system within 12 their office? 13 MR. : I believe they have the keys 14 to that office. 15 MR. : I didn't know if they - 16 were they locked in a separate areas? 17 MR. : The recorders? 18 MR. : Right. 19 MR. : No. They're in -. So, 20 there's two doors to go through. Yeah. 21 MR. : So, is anybody that's in 22 SIS, could have any one of them accessed that 23 cameras? 24 MR. : Correct. 25 MR. : Okay. So, any one of EFTA00112394 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 them could have theoretically knocked the 2 camera system offline? 3 MR. : Possibly. 4 MR. : All right. So, was that 5 a fully-staffed office at the time, are you 6 aware? 7 MR. : I don't. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. SIS, you're talking about? 10 MR. : Correct. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : Could either you or 13 , or anyone else for that matter, got 14 access to that camera system without SIS 15 letting you in? 16 MR. : No. Not that I -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : -- every time that I've had 19 to go in there, one of the comtechs were with 20 me, and we always - from what I understand - we 21 get SIS to let us in. 22 MR. : Okay. So, at that time, 23 if went on August 9th, to check on the 24 camera system, SIS would have had to have 25 allowed him in to enter that office? EFTA00112395 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 MR. : And I believe there was at 2 least - and I don't know what the SIS has to, 3 yeah, had to stay with them, or let them in at 4 some point, on an off hour, and it might not 5 even be related to this, but to work on the 6 system, at some point. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : So, yes. So, that means they 9 would be the only ones with the key. 10 MR. : Okay. So, - they 11 would have had to allow access. 12 MR. : Yeah. I don't even think my 13 comtechs have the key to that office. 14 MR. : Okay. Okay. Do you know 15 who from SIS was in charge at that time? 16 MR. : The captain. The captain. 17 MR. : Was there an SIA, or was 18 it just an SIS lieutenant at the time? 19 MR. : So, SIA back then, I don't 20 know if was still here or not. 21 (Phonetic Cp. .00:21:30) aas 22 the SIA at some point. And Lieutenant 23 was the lieutenant for a while. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : And I think - remember. EFTA00112396 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Was it a similar 2 situation now, whereas the SIA was actually 3 downstairs, and the lieutenant was upstairs? 4 MR. : The SIA was here. 5 MR. : Correct. 6 MR. : And the lieutenant is 7 upstairs. Yes. 8 MR. : All right. So, the SIA 9 wasn't actually physically in the room 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : -- where the cameras were 12 located? 13 MR. : Neither are they. 14 MR. : So, the lieutenant is not 15 either? 16 MR. : No. They're in -. So -- 17 MR. : I've never been up there. 18 MR. : -- okay. So, there's an 19 office here. There's the hallway. There's a 20 door here for the tech room. And then, inside 21 there is another door, and that's where 22 evidence and the cameras are. 23 MR. : But that's all within the 24 SIS space? 25 MR. : No, because -. All right. EFTA00112397 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 So, you have the SIS - that back then, it was 2 the captain's office, which is now an AW's 3 office. Next to it is this office I'm talking 4 about. 5 MR. : So, who would be in the 6 office that where the cameras were located? The 7 technicians? 8 MR. : The technicians. 9 MR. : Okay. Just the techs, 10 not the lieutenant, or -- 11 MR. : Yeah, it's always -- 12 MR. : -- the SIA? 13 MR. yeah. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : And again, I was very new 16 there. But yeah, the lieutenant sat in their 17 office, with two other desks. 18 MR. : Okay. Do you know if 19 anyone could have - the way that it all 20 happened - do you know if anyone could have 21 intentionally taken the cameras offline, or 22 stopped them from recording? Especially being a 23 Comtech guy yourself. 24 MR. : If it crashed, anything is 25 possible. I mean, you could do anything, and EFTA00112398 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 hurt the hard drive. If two hard drives were 2 down. Yeah. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : If they disconnected, that's 5 a different story. They don't just disconnect. 6 MR. : And do you know anything 7 about it? Did you research it at all to find 8 out, like, what happened? 9 MR. : No. By the time I got here, 10 it was -. 11 MR. : Said and done. When was 12 the next time you reported to work? 13 MR. : I would guess Monday. 14 MR. : Okay. And by that time, 15 were they basically already pulled and 16 everything, by the FBI? 17 MR. : I don't know. No, because 18 they had to come here. I know I sat with them 19 for a while, downloading stuff. And I can't 20 remember what incident that was. 21 MR. : And weren't they, like - 22 at the time - weren't they saying, like, how 23 could have this happened? How are these not 24 recording? 25 MR. : I don't -. No, because we EFTA00112399 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 1 didn't -. All they were doing was taking stuff 2 off the hard drive. They weren't watching 3 anything. 4 MR. : Right, right. 5 MR. : They were just -. They 6 didn't know what they were taking yet. 7 MR. : Okay. Do you know if, at 8 that time, you knew that the cameras were not 9 recording? Do you when that was - when it was 10 learned that nothing recorded here? 11 MR. : No. I don't. 12 MR. : You don't know? And 13 again, you can't remember any conversations you 14 had with , specific to that matter? 15 MR. : No. Not - no - not -. 16 don't remember if it was - like I said - the 17 Monday I came back, or what. I don't remember. 18 MR. : Yeah, yeah. And I'm not 19 asking for a specific conversation. I'm just 20 talking about, like, in general, what you 21 learned about, like, how that happened. And, 22 like, what was done, and all that. 23 MR. : The cause of it going down? 24 MR. : Sure. What was the cause 25 of it going down? EFTA00112400 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 1 MR. : The cause. Yeah. I don't 2 know exact cause. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : And if he would have just 5 told me, yeah, the hard drives crapped out, 6 that would have been sufficed for me to hear 7 because I know the hard drives do crap out. 8 MR. : Okay. But you just can't 9 remember if they had before that time, since 10 you were there since May? 11 MR. : No. I don't. 12 MR. : Okay. Could have 13 intentionally taken the cameras offline, or 14 stopped them from recording? 15 MR. : Anybody could do anything. I 16 don't think -. I don't think he's that type of 17 pe