EFTA00159180.pdf

-1 of 17 - OFFICIAL RECORD FD-302 (Rev. 5.810) FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION Dweacmy 04/23/2020 DAVID RODGERS, date of birth (DOB) was interviewed at One Saint Andrews Plaza, New York, New York. Present for the interview was Assistant United States Attorneys and Special Agent and RODGERS' attorney Brendan Quigley. After being advised of the identities of the above listed individuals and the nature of the interview, RODGERS provided the following information: RODGERS wanted to talk about the initials "AP" on his flight logs. Upon reflection, RODGERS wrote AP for ADAM PERRY and always wrote out PRINCE ANDREW's name on the flight logs. PERRY and PRINCE ANDREW were on the same flight and the initials AP meant ADAM PERRY. RODGERS went to Eastern Kentucky University for business; he was in the ROTC. RODGERS served in the ARMY for two years on active duty. The government paid for RODGERS to get his pilot license. RODGERS worked as a flight instructor, worked three years in the Corp as a pilot, worked as a pilot for a horse breeder, and worked as a pilot for four years in Columbus, Ohio. RODGERS' office was next door to THE LIMITED. They were selling a plane and the aviation manager from THE LIMITED knew they were selling. In the end of June 1991, LES WEXNER had a friend who needed a pilot. RODGERS met with JEFFREY EPSTEIN a day or so later. A couple days later, EPSTEIN and RODGERS flew to Wisconsin to see EPSTEIN's plane. This was a pre-buy inspection. They met the broker, saw the plane, and flew back. At the time of this interview, RODGERS was still employed by EPSTEIN. RODGERS had worked for EPSTEIN for 29 years. At the time of EPSTEIN's July 2019 arrest, RODGERS had been employed for 28 years. RODGERS was employed by "J EPSTEIN S COMPANY" before the name changed to "NES LLC" in RODGERS Imrstiptionm 02/07/2020 at New York, New York, United States (In Person) hkM 50D-NY-3027571 Date drafted 02/13/2020 by Th4s document contains neither recommendations nor conclusion% or the FBI. It is the property or the FBI and is loaned 10 your agency; h and fix C011ien“ are not to be distributed onside your agency. 3523-018 Page 1 of17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFFA_00008987 EFTA00159180 FD.302u (Rev. 54.10) 50D-NY-3027571 CominualionaED402of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 p age 2 of 17 third or fourth year and has stayed the same since then. The first flight RODGERS had with EPSTEIN was July 26, 1991. RODGERS knew this because he looked at the flight logs the day before this interview. The first plane RODGERS flew for EPSTEIN was a Hawker 700 (HS 700) which was a mid-size jet that fit maybe twelve people. EPSTEIN had this plane until December 2004, when they sold it. RODGERS was EPSTEIN's Chief Pilot up until December 2004. In 2005, RODGERS was demoted to Captain. The chief pilot's responsibilities included maintenance, scheduling, and basically keeping up with everything. The captain's/first officer's responsibility was to simply fly the plane. The second plane RODGERS flew for EPSTEIN was the Gulfstream 2B (G2B). This plane was purchased on February 2, 1994 and went into service in August. A new interior was put in. RODGERS guessed that in 1996 EPSTEIN purchased a light twin plane that they kept for approximately four to five years. The twin engine plane was kept at the ranch occasionally. The pilots used the small planes more than EPSTEIN. EPSTEIN told the pilots they could use them for vacation. EPSTEIN would maybe use them occasionally, for example, like a trip to the Bahamas. In January 2001, EPSTEIN purchased a Boeing 727 and was put into service in August 2001. It was painted and the interior redone. They stopped flying this plane in approximately 2016 and sold it in 2018. The G2B was flown all the time before being sold in November 2013. The light twin, which was a Cessna 421, was sold in approximately 2000/2001. In approximately April 2013, EPSTEIN purchased a Gulfstream 4. The Gulfstream 4 was sold in June 2019. In approximately March 2017, EPSTEIN purchased a Gulfstream 550. This plane was flown a little bit, maybe twenty or thirty trips. This plane went in for an interior and it took a while. A different LLC owned the aircrafts. At the time of this interview, the Gulfstream 550 was the only plane operational. From approximately 1994 to 2000, the G2B was the main airplane. The G2B had twelve seats. When walking into the plane, to the left was the 3523-018 Page 2 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008988 EFTA00159181 FD.302a(licv.544(J) 50D—NY-3027571 contimmonom ).3020t (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 p aw 3 of 17 cockpit. To the right, there was a door that was always kept closed. There was a wide-open area with club seating, a table with two seats facing forward, a divan made into a bed, more club seating, a galley, a lavatory, and another door for baggage. When entering the Boeing 727, to the right was the first compartment door. The forward salon seated approximately twelve to fourteen people. This salon had three couches, with two facing each other and one sideways. There was a tiny hallway, then a galley with a kitchen sink, refrigerator, and a buffet area. There was round room with a couch. The next room was an office then a bedroom. Between each salon were doors. The doors were rarely closed to RODGERS knowledge. Then there was a lavatory and space for baggage. The crew, along with the passengers, always used the forward lavatory. The first time they cleared customs EPSTEIN put banker as his occupation. RODGERS' understanding was EPSTEIN was a money manager. RODGERS thought he heard EPSTEIN say he only handled people who had a billion or more in money. RODGERS was not sure if he heard that from the media. RODGERS did not think EPSTEIN was a hedge fund manager. EPSTEIN had money in a hedge fund but lost money. Flight logs were not required. The only logs that were required were how much time they flew because they needed to know that for maintenance of the aircrafts. RODGERS had always kept passenger logs, including the date, passengers, and places flown, in every job he had. For RODGERS, he was required to keep up to date on his FAA rating. RODGERS thought it was 1980 when he received the airline transport pilot rating, which is the highest rating and required 1500 hours of flight time. The first rating is a private pilot which someone would have to keep track of number of hours. It takes 250 hours to become a commercial airline pilot. RODGERS had to recertify every six months for the Boeing and every twelve months for the other aircrafts. From approximately 1991 to 2005, RODGERS kept his own logbook which included the passenger manifest and how many hours he flew on each day. RODGERS had to keep up with the aircraft, engines, and APU times. Maintenance forms were kept by the pilots. The manifest included date, departed, arrival, pilot, passenger, flight time, and fuel flow (RODGERS 3523-018 Page3of17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008989 EFTA00159182 FD.302a(Rev.544M 50D-NY -3027571 CominmiionofFD•302of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS .0, 02/07/2020 Paw 4 of 17 thought this was included). RODGERS kept his own logbook because he wanted accountability for if anyone asked who was on a flight, he could have that information. When RODGERS was the chief pilot, he kept the manifest records for the aircrafts and thought he faxed them to someone in EPSTEIN's office. RODGERS kept the originals until approximately 2004. In 2005, RODGERS no longer had kept those records. In or around 2006, EPSTEIN's attorney JACK GOLDBERGER picked up the records. Plus or minus about four months of RODGERS initially meeting with the FBI, RODGERS no longer had those records. RODGERS' logbook and the manifest kept were identical. The logbook was RODGERS personally while the manifest belonged to EPSTEIN's company. Sometimes when RODGERS did not have his personal logbook with him on a flight, he would take the manifest home to update his logbook after returning to Palm Beach. RODGERS kept the logbook because it was useful for him to know how many hours he was flying. RODGERS had kept these records since his first job as a pilot and did so until 2007. RODGERS only kept his logbook for flights he was on; he did not copy from the manifest on flights he was not on. When RODGERS flew the G2B, every year he would go to a training that lasted five days and had three weeks vacation. RODGERS estimated there would be approximately four weeks worth of flight logs he would not be on. Someone else would have kept the manifest for those flights RODGERS was not on. EPSTEIN's company would have manifests from flights RODGERS was not on. In 2005, an additional pilot was hired to bring the number of pilots employed by EPSTEIN to three. RODGERS estimated that at this point it could have been more than four weeks of flight logs he was not on. When RODGERS was operating the Boeing and the Gulfstream, he was going to two to three weeks worth of training. The Hawker and Gulfstream overlapped in 1994. In 1996, 1997, 1998, if EPSTEIN was not on the flight, the plane was not being flown with a few exceptions. RODGERS flew to Bedford to pick up ALAN DERSHOWITZ. If RODGERS was sick or there was an occasional death in his family, EPSTEIN would send RODGERS home. In or around 2005/2006, RODGERS might fly GHISLAINE MAXWELL while EPSTEIN was in the Boeing. 35234)18 Page4of17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008990 EFTA00159183 ED.3(12a(Rev.544M SOD-NY-3027571 ConinmlbnotFD•3O2ot (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS .O, 02/07/2020 J ag, 5 of 17 From approximately 1994 to 1998, they flew every three days, sometimes more. There were a lot of changes. MAXWELL gave RODGERS the travel schedule; it was always verbal, never written. MAXWELL would tell RODGERS that EPSTEIN may be on the flight on a certain date and traveling to a certain location. EPSTEIN was not the one who made changes; it was unusual for him to do so. RODGERS would receive a call from MAXWELL or a secretary the day of travel or day before if changes were to be made. RODGERS recalled some of the secretaries were PAULA SHERMAN, MANDY MILROY, PAULA had been working for EPSTEIN for over ten years when RODGERS started. was the secretary before MANDY became a secretary. RODGERS did not recall a lot of the other secretaries' names but recalled there were too many that did not work out. RODGERS would receive a phone call from MAXWELL, maybe seven days ahead of time, of the travel schedule. There was never a written schedule. MAXWELL's role was in hiring and firing people; RODGERS thought she seemed to enjoy the firing more. MAXWELL was responsible for a lot of purchases and ran EPSTEIN's houses. If there was a problem, RODGERS had to deal with MAXWELL. If something was needed for the plane, RODGERS had to tell MAXWELL. RODGERS would reach out to MAXWELL or a secretary regarding scheduling. Rarely did RODGERS know who would be on a flight until they arrived. Sometimes, RODGERS received less than 24 hours notice of a flight. The typical notice was four days. If there was a special event on a certain date, RODGERS would receive a month notice. If MAXWELL was on the flight, she was the one who was more likely to reach out for scheduling the flight. When flying to Europe to Paris or London, EPSTEIN and MAXWELL took the Concorde, a commercial flight. Flying from Palm Beach to JFK, they could taxi right up to the Concorde. This was in approximately 1992-1994, when they flew the Hawker. MAXWELL had a quarter share for a year or maybe two to three that she was able to travel wherever she wanted, so RODGERS did not always fly her. RODGERS stated it was possible he would fly EPSTEIN and MAXWELL would fly separate and meet them later. When RODGERS was flying EPSTEIN to his island, RODGERS would fly back to Palm Beach commercially then when EPSTEIN was ready to leave the island, he would contact RODGERS and RODGERS would fly back to the island commercially. 3523-018 Page 5 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_0000899 I EFTA00159184 FD.302e (Rev. 54.10) 500-NY-3027571 (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS CominoaionofFD•302of O, 02/07/2020 . p age 6 of 17 RODGERS did not check IDs or DOBs of passengers. However, if they were returning from an international location, RODGERS would have seen the passengers DOGS or Passports. RODGERS would need their name, DOB, nationality before taking off; he had to have this information 24 hours in advance. RODGERS either received this information via telephone or in person. During the 1990s, there was a customs form that included passenger, nationality, and DOB information of which the captain filled out. As the chief pilot, RODGERS would not always fill it out because he would not be the captain on every flight. RODGERS thought he would have faxed this information to customs then the form was trashed. It was possible that copies of passports were kept, maybe ten to twenty. RODGERS flew very few international flights with the Hawker because it would not make it nonstop. In approximately 1996, the G2B probably went to Ireland. It would have been the first time it flew to Europe; there was a plane load of people. RODGERS would ask one of EPSTEIN's secretaries about the number and names of passengers. Usually, RODGERS found out of a passenger when he/she were on the flight. RODGERS would not ask questions when he would see a female or male passenger. Sometimes, when RODGERS would fly to St. Thomas, he would put "1 female" if he did not know the female's name. When they returned from the islands, RODGERS would then know the female's name because they would have to go through customs. Other times, RODGERS would ask MAXWELL who the female was and sometimes she would tell him. There would be times where the pilot who was loading luggage would learn the names from the suitcases, while the other pilot was on the plane. RODGERS knew before they took off how many people would be flying. During the flight, RODGERS or the other pilot would fill out manifests. To the best of his knowledge, RODGERS did not leave anyone off the manifest; it was as accurate as possible. RODGERS advised it was possible that the first time a name appeared in the flight logs did not necessarily mean it was the individual's first flight. On RODGERS' logbook, he would put date of flight. For example, it would read "91 Apr" then only the days below before putting the next month and the days below that month. The logbooks also recorded aircraft ID which was the registration number, the from and to locations, the miles flown, flight number, remarks. The miles flown counted as the duty time, which could only be certain hours for commercial or charters. RODGERS had recorded "26 July" 3523-018 Page 6 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008992 EFTA00159185 FD.302a02m544M SOD-NY-3027571 conti„uaben of FD.302 of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS On 02/07/2020 p ast 7 of 17 as "Fl no. 1" because that was the first flight he was on. LARRY VISOSKI was the other pilot. The flight number referred to the number of times a particular airline flew. Where simulator was recorded, the pilots were flying simulators. When they started flying the Boeing, the number started at 1, while the Gulfstream's numbers continued in sequence. RODGERS recorded passengers in the "remarks" section. Where "1/1" was recorded meant there was one takeoff and one landing in a day. The airplane section was the aircraft category for the FAA. The section with page total was how many flying hours recorded. RODGERS was asked to review certain flights and provided the below information. FLIGHTS January 2, 1994 - Flight 445 • The Hawker was flown from West Palm Beach (PBI) to Teterboro (TEB). • This was flight number 445 for the Hawker. • The passengers were EPSTEIN and MAXWELL. • The pilot with RODGERS was RUSS KIPPES. On flights where there was no name listed, RODGERS knew the other pilot was VISOSKI. January 8, 1994 - Flights 448, 449, 450 • There were three trips this day. • Trips from • The passengers were EPSTEIN and RODGERS thought was a masseuse who was in her late 20s/early 30s. January 15, 1994 - Flights 451, 452, 453 • There were three fli hts this da . • Trips from • The passengers were EPSTEIN, January 18, 1994 - Flight 456 • The passengers included EPSTEIN and MAXWELL and "2 females". • RODGERS did not know the females on this flight. They were not Or They were people RODGERS did not know. Flights on Page "Rodgers000056" • Pilots flying with RODGERS were JIM WORDEN and AL GATTO. 3523-018 Page 7 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008993 EFTA00159186 FI).3(na(Rev.544M 50D-NY-3027571 CominoaiionotFD•302ot (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS on 02/07/2020 J ag, 8 of 17 On July 28, 1994 - flight 555, RODGERS put JEFFREY EPSTEIN's full name because it was a new logbook. RODGERS thought RODGERS assumed her to be in her late 20s/early 30s. was a who was also in her late 20s/early 30s. • "B, C, D, E, F" were test flights on the new plane. "A" was on February 2, 1994. • There was a two week period, approximately ten flights, where RODGERS was not flying. • Flights from PBI to Chicago Midway, Chicago to Columbus, Ohio passengers included • Flights to Aspen and Traverse City, Michigan (TVC). • On flight 569, PBI was official residence • RODGERS did not know why they traveled to Midway. RODGERS thought they traveled to Ohio to see LES WEXNER. RODGERS thought WEXNER had a place in Aspen as well. RODGERS recalled that in Michigan, there was a music camp at INTERLOCHEN where musicians attended. RODGERS thought it was mostly high school students who attended. EPSTEIN went once a year to the summer camp at INTERLOCHEN, probably around August. RODGERS remembered asking about INTERLOCHEN and thought originally he had been told by PAULA SHERMAN that it was a camp. RODGERS and VISOSKI went and checked it out. EPSTEIN donated a house or had built a lodge at INTERLOCHEN. RODGERS thought RODGERS did not remember reading that in the paper. flew with them at a later date. RODGERS did not know who would have told him, but he remembered EPSTEIN and MAXWELL RODGERS thought he met around the year plus or minus a few years. RODGERS was not sure how he was introduced to her, but would have been on the flight. RODGERS heard somewhere that March 16, 1995 - Flight 666 Passengers on the flight were EPSTEIN, RUPERT, DAVID ROTH, and four passengers who could have been male or female. RODGERS did not know who RUPERT was, but thought he could have been an employee of EPSTEIN. 3523-018 Page 8 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008994 EFTA00159187 FD.302u (Rev. 54.10) 50D—NY —3027571 cominoaionofFD•302of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 " sr 9 of 17 July 23, 1995 - Flight 727 • Flight from PBI to Huntington, WV (HTS) • Passengers on the flight were EPSTEIN and one passenger. RODGERS did not know the passenger. March 26, 1996 - Flight 818 • VNY to Santa Fe, NM (SAF). • There were three flights that RODGERS was not on as there is a jump in flight numbers from 818 to 821. April 8, 1996 - Flight 821 • Passengers on this flight were EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, "AS" who was ANDY STUART, • RODGERS thought he probably took a commercial airline home to West Palm Beach. May 2, 1996 - Flight 831 • Flight to Dublin. • Passengers included EPSTEIN, ELIZABETH JOHNSON of JOHNSON AND JOHNSON, and the rest of the passengers included JOHNSON's people. May 3, 1996 - Flight 832 • Flight from Dublin (EIDW) to Waterford (EIWF). May 3, 1996 - Flight 833 • Flight from Waterford (EIWF) to Paris (LFPB). May 6, 1996 - Flight 834 • Flight from Paris (LFPB) to Geneva (LSGG). May 6, 1996 - Flight 835 • Flight from Geneva (LSGG) to Shannon, Ireland (EINN). May 6, 1996 - Flight 836 • Flight from Ireland to TEB. PAMELA JOHANA'OFF was on these overseas flights; RODGERS did not know her. May 22, 1996 - Flight 844 3523-018 Page 9 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008995 EFTA00159188 FD.302a(Rev.544M SOD—NY-3027571 conti„ualie„ on:D.302ot (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS 0„ 02/07/2020 p as , 10 of 17 • Flight from PBI to Santa Fe, NM (SAF) • Passengers on this flight were EPSTEIN and MAXWELL traveling to EPSTEIN's New Mexico ranch. November 7, 1996 - Flight 915 Flew the G2B from Passengers on the flight were EPSTEIN, RODGERS assumed JEFF SCHANTZ and his family, the child was probably nanny, 1 male, and 1 female. November 11, 1996 - Flight 916 • One of the passengers was RUSS was the other pilot. December 23, 1996 - Flight 933 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, and ROBIN PLANT. January 5, 1997 - Flight 934 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, DONALD TRUMP, MARK EPSTEIN, DIDIER who was a chef. January 11, 1997 - Flight 935 • Flight from • Flew to Florida to watch the space shuttle. • Passengers included EPSTEIN, NATHAN, ALAN and ADAM DERSHOWITZ, January 11, 1997 - Flight 936 • Flight from TIX to PSI. • This flight had no passengers. • RODGERS was told to fly the G2B back and return with the Cessna. RODGERS was not on the return flight to TIX. VISOSKI flew back in the Cessna 421. May 2, 1997 - Flight 974 • Flight from TEB to London (EGGW). 3523-018 Page 10 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008996 EFTA00159189 FD.302u (Rev. 54.10) 500-NY-3027571 ComthumoonofFD402of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 p age 11 of 17 • Passengers on this flight were EPSTEIN and MAXWELL. MAXWELL was from London. RODGERS did not know if MAXWELL had a home there but thought she may have one. May 2, 1997 - Flight 975 • Flight from EGGW to Geneva (LSGG). May 5, 1997 - Flight 976 • Flight from LSGG to Paris (LFPB). May 6, 1997 - Flight 977 • Flight from LFPB to Canada (CYJT) for a fuel stop. May 6, 1997 - Flight 978 • Flight from CYJT to TEB. May 9, 1997 - Flight 979 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, and May 12, 1997 - Flight 980 • Flight from SAF to VNY • The only passenger was EPSTEIN. May 14, 1997 - Flight 981 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN and July 15, 1997 - Flight 58 • Flight from Zorro Ranch (ZOR) to SAF. • This plane was N908GM for MAXWELL. It was a Cessna 421. August 1, 1997 - Flight 59 • Flight from SAF to ZOR. • Passenger on thr flight was RODGERS' who would have been at the time. 3523-018 Pagell of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008997 EFTA00159190 FD.302u (Rev. 54.10) 50D—NY-3027571 CominmiionotFD•302o( (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 p age 12 of 17 August 9, 1997 - Flight 1012 • Flight from PBI to TVC because EPSTEIN and MAXWELL always went to Michigan in August. August 17, 1997 - Flight 1015 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN and RODGERS assumed was in her 30s. Flights on Page "Rodgers000076" • Between flights 994 to 999, RODGERS was not on flights so he could have been on vacation. • Between flights 1000 to 1012, RODGERS could have been on vacation. • Flights 57 to 59 were for a different count system for the Cessna. September 7, 1997 - Flight 1027 • Flight from Nice, France (LFMN) to London (EGGW). October 17, 1997 - Flight 1039 • Flight from TEB to PEI. • Passengers included EPSTEIN, who was MAXWELL's assistant. who RODGERS thought was friends with MAXWELL. RODGERS assumed MAXWELL and had a connection. May 1, 1998 - no flight number • This was a plane, Cessna 172, that RODGERS' friend KRIS rented. This plane did not have to do with EPSTEIN. May 3, 1998 - Flight 1105 • Flight from PBI to TEB. • Passengers included EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, who RODGERS assumed was RODGERS knew had flown on EPSTEIN's plane a few times. Flights on Page "Rodgers0000113" • The "N" number was taken off the Gulfstream and put on the Boeing. 3523-018 Page 12 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008998 EFTA00159191 FD.302a(Rev.544M 50D-NY-3027571 ContinmlionofFD•3U2of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS .on 02/07/2020 J ag, 13 of 17 September 3, 2001 - Flight 13 • Flight from • Passengers included EPSTEIN, MAXWELL, who was a girl in her late 20s that was around for a few months, RODGERS did not remember January 17, 2002 - Flight 49 Flight from One of the passengers was like in that was with EPSTEIN for a while. was in her late 20s. RODGERS remembered but did not know her role. Another passenger on this flight, was someone RODGERS could not picture. RODGERS recalled several flights in 2002 where PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON was doing AIDS research. was on these fli hts. was in her mid-20s. RODGERS did not know her role. was also on these flights. RODGERS did not know her role. December 5, 2002 - Flight 166 • Flight from JFK to FBI. • Passenger MICHAEL LEEMAN was on this flight. RODGERS listed "2 females" because he did not know the names of those individuals. December 9, 2002 - Flight 167 • Flight from FBI to TIST. • RODGERS listed "2 females" because he did not know the names of those individuals. December 15, 2002 - Flight 168 • Fli ht from was on board with RODGERS assumed was in her earl 20s. was also on board. RODGERS thought could have been the "2 females" from the previous two flights because he would have had to learn the names of those on board because they would have to go through customs. April 24, 2003 - Flight 1633 35234)18 Page13of17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00008999 EFTA00159192 MaMaMm544M SOD—NY-3027571 ContinoalionofFD•30.uf (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS .On 02/07/2020 J ag, 14 of 17 • Flight from SAF to SBA. was a passenger on this flight; RODGERS did not recall last name. April 24, 2003 - Flight 1634 • Fli ht from was a passenger on this flight. May 12, 2003 - Flight 195 • Flight from TIST to JFK. • Passenger "AM" was ANDREA MITROVITCH. RODGERS did not know TATIANA ESPINOSA or FABRIAME PACHECO. RODGERS recalled flew on EPSTEIN's planes. looked approximately ten years younger than she was. RODGERS thought was from was around EPSTEIN for approximately three or four years. RODGERS did not know job. Another woman, who also traveled with EPSTEIN, was another individual who RODGERS did not know what her role entailed. September 22, 2003 - Flight 1662 • Flight from • RODGERS was "pretty sure" that passenger on this flight was At this point, EPSTEIN and MAXWELL were no longer an item. • Passenger "ET" as BRENT TINDLE, who was a chef. RODGERS knew first name, but did not know if he knew her last name at the time he flew her. In February 2007, RODGERS stopped putting down passenger names. RODGERS was instructed/advised to stop. RODGERS had a discussion with another pilot, GARY ROXBURG, who told him that there was no advantage to recording the names of passengers, but only disadvantages. A lot of charter pilots fly all kinds of people, both good and bad. Even though the pilot may not be doing anything wrong, he was asked how would it look to fly a "bad person". Someone from EPSTEIN's circle also advised RODGERS to stop recording passenger names. RODGERS felt that it was likely a combination of 35234)18 Page14of17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00009000 EFTA00159193 HM02002m544M 50D-NY-3027571 CominuaiionofFD•)02of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 ft 15 of 17 the two conversations which had him stop recording names. RODGERS thought that it was better off to put down names because of it's accountability. At this point in time, RODGERS had turned over his logbook to the FBI; they had records up until August 2006. RODGERS figured after this, it was better to not put down names of passengers. In August 2013, lawsuits started happening. RODGERS' job changed in 2004. The G2 was louder than the G4. The FAA had a quiet landing procedure. EPSTEIN did not like the FAA quiet landing procedure. Most of the time, they landed late at night around 10PM or later and it would wake people up. EPSTEIN told RODGERS he did not want RODGERS to do the procedure. There was a time where they were traveling back to Palm Beach and RODGERS executed the quiet landing procedure. The next day, EPSTEIN asked RODGERS to come over. EPSTEIN told RODGERS that he saw RODGERS do the quiet landing after EPSTEIN had told him not to do it. EPSTEIN told RODGERS that he was no longer the chief pilot. RODGERS received a pay cut of approximately $5000 as a result. RODGERS felt relief because the amount of work he had to do as chief pilot was not worth it. RODGERS had a "huge chunk" of his life back and did not have to do as much work. RODGERS had first been approached by a detective. The detective asked RODGERS if he ever flew young girls. RODGERS told the detective, "yea, all the time". RODGERS told him he flew girls in their 20s, and maybe a 19- year-old. The detective asked if he had flown a 14-year-old. At this point in the interview, RODGERS did not go into further detail. RODGERS did not initially have a lawyer but did have a lawyer when he first spoke to the FBI and had a lawyer for a deposition. Someone from EPSTEIN's circle told RODGERS to call a particular lawyer when he was contacted by the FBI. RODGERS contacted DARREN INDYKE, who was one of EPSTEIN's lawyers. RODGERS would call INDYKE, as opposed to EPSTEIN, for anything having to do with legal questions, for example, help with buying and selling an airplane. RODGERS also had a lawyer from Fort Lauderdale, whose first name was BRUCE. No one told RODGERS not to say something when questioned by the FBI or other law enforcement. RODGERS talked with about aviation. RODGERS did not have "real" interaction with Sometimes, 3523-018 Page 15 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_0000900 I EFTA00159194 HMlna02m5440) SOD-NY-3027571 CominmiionofFD•3O2ot (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS O, 02/07/2020 ft 16 of 17 some people would have been introduced to RODGERS and sometimes others introduced themselves. When RODGERS would sit in the right seat in the cockpit, he could see with his own eyes who was on the plane. When RODGERS sat in the left seat, which was the captain's seat, the first officer would tell him how many people were on board. RODGERS did not have a particular reason why he put female/male or passenger. If MAXWELL was on board, she would alert RODGERS to the number of people on board. MAXWELL, more so than the secretaries, was in touch with RODGERS for the flights she was on board. For the flights where MAXWELL was not on board, it would usually be someone else who would alert RODGERS to who would be on board. Sometimes, RODGERS received the information from the island manager or the ranch manager. EPSTEIN would tell the managers to tell the pilots. A lot of the time, the managers would ask when they were leaving. RODGERS did not know how the term "Lolita Express" originated. RODGERS was concerned when he saw the press say PRINCE ANDREW flew on the Lolita Express; RODGERS never said this. RODGERS contacted BOIS SCHILLER to get the transcript from his deposition but could not get it. RODGERS was eventually able to read through the transcript trying to see why he had said that; RODGERS thought the deposition had been transcribed incorrectly. RODGERS wanted to see video of it. RODGERS always wrote out PRINCE ANDREW's name on the flight logs. EPSTEIN was in jail in 2008. RODGERS did not think they did anything with EPSTEIN in 2009. There was a reduced flying load and salary. RODGERS thought he maybe did one flight for another person. Once they got back to flying normal, RODGERS' salary was supposed to return to normal. RODGERS called INDYKE and INDYKE told him that he could not help RODGERS. The economy in 2008/2009 was bad and aviation was down. There were not a lot of jobs during this time. In 2008, RODGERS did not receive a raise. EPSTEIN was very generous with raises. There was a ten percent pay cut for employees. Later, RODGERS received a phone call that his salary would be reduced to_and receive for each flight. RODGERS worked for ten years at this salary with no raise. RODGERS continued to work for EPSTEIN because he enjoyed the job. EPSTEIN was nice to fly for because RODGERS never saw him get upset or yell at the pilots. RODGERS loved the places where they would fly. RODGERS' was in school in Florida and he did not want to uproot from 3523-018 Page 16 of 17 SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER PARAGRAPHS 7, 8, 9, 10, 15, and 17 EFTA_00009002 EFTA00159195 FD.302a02m544M 50D-NY-3027571 ContinmbenofFD•302of (U) Interview of DAVID RODGERS 0, 02/07/2020 pt's , 17 of 17 Florida. The job was easy for RODGERS. RODGERS knew that if he went somewhere else, he would be away from home more. RICHARD KAHN called RODGERS in March 2019 and told RODGERS he would be earning a day. The odds of working for as long as RODGERS wanted were good with EPSTEIN because they were around the same age. Most corporations cut off pilots at age 65. As of the date of this interview, RODGERS was still employed by NES LLC, and received a direct deposit every two weeks. RODGERS flew twice after EPSTEIN was arrested on July 6, 2019. RODGERS flew the plane from Teteboro to Georgia and to Palm Beach. RODGERS will likely have to do demonstrations b