EFTA00062649.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL JULY 12, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00062649  2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE EFTA00062650  3 1 MR. : The recorder is on. My 2 name is with the U.S. 3 Department of Justice Office of the Inspector 4 General New York Field Office and these are my 5 credentials. All right. This interview with 6 federal Bureau of Prisons lieutenant 7 is being conducted as part 8 of an official U.S. Department of Justice 9 Office of the Inspector General investigation. 10 Today's date is July 12, 2021, and the time is 11 1:06 p.m. This interview is being conducted at 12 the federal correctional institution Danbury, 13 located in Danbury, Connecticut. This is the 14 training center. What is it the -? 15 MR. : SIPE Center. 16 MR. : SIPE Center? 17 MR. : Yeah. 18 MR. : What does it stand for do 19 you know? 20 MR. : Mm.... 21 MR. : SPI - whatever. It's the 22 training center. 23 MR. : SIPE. Yeah. 24 MR. : Yeah. It's the training 25 center right outside of the FCI Danbury on the EFTA00062651  4 1 FCI Danbury property. Also present is DOJ OIG 2 Special Agent . This interview 3 will be recorded by me, SSA • 4 Could everyone please identify themselves for 5 the record and spell your last name. To start, 6 again I am DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent 7 8 MR. : I am Special Agent 9 10 MR. : I am Lieutenant 11 12 MR. : Thank you sir. This is 13 an official DOJ OIG investigation to the death 14 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein and the surrounding 15 circumstances, and you're being asked to 16 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 17 Will you agree to a voluntary interview with 18 the DOJ OIG? 19 MR. : Yes. 20 MR. : Thank you sir. This is a 21 form that we have for our voluntary interviews. 22 We give this to everybody that's voluntary just 23 so you know that it is voluntary. You know you 24 can stop the interview any time. You don't 25 have to answer our questions. You can leave. EFTA00062652  5 1 I'm going to read it to you for the record. 2 It's United States Department of Justice Office 3 of the Inspector General Warnings and 4 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 5 Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are 6 being asked to provide information as part of 7 an investigation being conducted by the Office 8 of the Inspector General. This investigation 9 is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector 10 General Act as amended. This investigation 11 pertains to job performance failure and 12 security failure. This is a voluntary 13 interview. Accordingly, you do not have to 14 answer questions. No disciplinary action will 15 be taken against you if you choose not to 16 answer questions. Any statement you furnish 17 may be used as evidence in any future criminal 18 proceedings or agency disciplinary proceedings 19 or both. Then there's the waiver which says I 20 understand the Warnings and Assurances stated 21 above and I am willing to make a statement and 22 answer questions. No promises or threats have 23 been made to me and no pressure or coercion of 24 any kind has been used against me. And there's 25 the - right here - employee signature and EFTA00062653  6 1 employee's name. You want to read that 2 yourself. Feel free to. If you agree just 3 sign 4 MR. : So it says job performance 5 failure and security failure according to-. 6 MR. : That's for everybody. 7 We're giving that - that's just the blanket 8 statement we're providing to every single 9 person that we interview. 10 MR. -: .mm 11 MR. : It doesn't necessarily 12 mean that you've done anything wrong. It's 13 just that's what the investigation is looking 14 into. You know security failure of the 15 institution - job performance failure. Because 16 someone died in this matter. And looking into 17 the surrounding circumstances with it. 18 Everybody's being provided that same - 19 MR. : Okay. 20 21 MR. : -- that same information. 22 Okay. So I just singed my name as the Special 23 Agent. And I'm printing my name. Again this 24 is 25 MR. : This is Special Agent EFTA00062654  7 1 I am signing as a witness. 2 MR. : Okay. And Special Agent 3 , if you don't mind, just place the date 4 and time. Again it is July 12, 2021, and the 5 time is 1:10 p.m. now. And the place is FCI 6 Danbury Training Center. Thank you, sir. 7 Okay. Did you understand that form? 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : Okay. Cool. Is there 10 any other questions you want to ask about that 11 though? 12 MR. : no. 13 MR. : No? 14 MR. : I mean it's voluntary is that 15 right? 16 MR. : Yeah. Exactly. 17 Voluntary. You don't have to answer. And 18 again that job performance failure - security 19 failure that's something we're telling 20 everybody that that's the purpose of our 21 interviews is to figure out - 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. what went wrong and 24 all that kind of stuff with regard to this 25 matter. Before starting the interview, I'd EFTA00062655  8 1 like to place you under oath. Lieutenant 2 can you please raise your right hand. 3 Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but 4 the truth during this interview? 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : Thank you sir. All 7 right. Please just let me know if you don't 8 understand these questions and I'll try to 9 rephrase them or put them in a different way 10 add clarification. So what is your home 11 address? 12 MR. _: 13 MR. : And what is your date of 14 birth? 15 MR. -: 16 MR. : And your Social Security 17 number? 18 MR. 19 MR. : Thank you. And your 20 current cell phone number. 21 MR. 22 MR. : And what's your highest 23 level of education? 24 MR. : Um bachelors. 25 MR. : Where? EFTA00062656  9 1 MR. : Criminal justice. 2 MR. : Criminal justice. Where 3 did you get that from? 4 MR. -: 5 MR. : Is that in New York City? 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : And when did you 8 graduate? 9 MR. : 2006, I think. 10 MR. : Okay. And what did you 11 do prior to working for the BOP? 12 MR. : Uh TSA. 13 MR. : Um okay. And what did 14 you do for TSA? 15 MR. : I was a screener at JFK. 16 MR. : How long did you do that? 17 MR. : Mm six and a half years. 18 MR. : From approximately when 19 until when? 20 MR. : '02 to '09. 21 MR. : '02 to '09. Okay. And 22 do you have any military service? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : Okay. And how long have 25 you served with the Federal Bureau of Prisons? EFTA00062657  10 1 MR. Mm like about 20 years. 2 MR. : Twenty years. 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : Oh, okay. So you did it 5 while you were with TSA? 6 MR. : I did TSA is federal. And I 7 8 MR. : No-no-no. With the BOP. 9 How long have you served with the BOP? 10 MR. : The BOP? 11 MR. : Sorry. 12 MR. : Twelve years. 13 MR. : Twelve years. Okay. 14 From when until when. 15 MR. : '09 to present. 16 MR. : What was your Enter on 17 Duty Date? 18 MR. Mm June 21st I think uh 2009/ 19 MR. : Okay. Any breaks of 20 service? 21 MR. : Nah. 22 MR. : Okay. And when did you 23 do you know when you graduated BOP training? 24 MR. Mm I think it's September or 25 August. EFTA00062658  11 1 MR. : Of ;09? 2 MR. : You're talking about GLYNCO, 3 right? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Yeah '09. 6 MR. '09. Okay. And when and 7 where was your first office assignment with the 8 BOP? 9 MR. : New York. 10 MR. : Uh which institution? 11 MR. : MCC. 12 MR. : Were you with MCC the 13 whole time? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Oh, okay. And when did 16 you become a lieutenant? 17 MR. : What's this '21 - 2019, `18 18 I think December 17th I did a temp. 19 MR. : December of 2017? 20 MR. '17. Yeah. 21 MR. : And when did you leave 22 the MCC? 23 MR. : I left December '19. 24 MR. : December of 2019? 25 MR. : Yeah. EFTA00062659  12 1 MR. : And then is that when you 2 came here to the FCI Danbury? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : And um did you come here 5 for a promotion? 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : So were you a GS9 8 lieutenant? 9 MR. : I was a 9 there but I got TDY 10 down there. So I was 11 also there. 11 MR. : Oh you were? 12 MR. : Yeah. I got TDY for about 13 four months. 14 MR. : Okay. Can you just - 15 what does that mean? 16 MR. : Temporary Duty. Like I 17 was picked up. I got my promotion, but I had 18 to stay down there for a few months until I 19 came up here. 20 MR. : Okay. So FCI Danbury. 21 You were promoted to an 11 but they had you 22 stay down there as an 11 for four months? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : So when were you actually 25 picked up? EFTA00062660  13 1 MR. : About three months. In 2 October, September, October, November, three 3 months. Yeah. 4 MR. : So when did you actually 5 get your promotion? 6 MR. Mm September. 7 MR. : Of 2019? 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : And when did you 10 physically come to the FCI Danbury? 11 MR. : December. 12 MR. : December. Okay. And 13 your current position is still GS11 lieutenant? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : And what was your 16 position at the MCC on August 9th and 10th of 17 2019? 18 MR. Uh August you said 10th? 19 MR. : Yeah. So August - you 20 said September you got your 11 so I'm assuming 21 in August of 2019 you were 22 MR. : I was a 9 then. 23 MR. : -- a 9 lieutenant. 24 MR. : Yeah. In August yeah. 25 MR. : And this is just for my EFTA00062661  14 1 own knowledge. What is the difference between 2 a 9 lieutenant and an 11 lieutenant? 3 MR. : Pretty much you could 4 if you at 9 you can't run the institution. 5 Because it's not a higher rank. So like 11 or 6 the only ones who can without a captain. 7 You're the highest. But a 9 you can't be the 8 highest. 9 MR. : So does that mean like as 10 far as like being the ops lieutenant versus the 11 activities' lieutenant? 12 MR. Nah. You could be ops as a 13 9. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : But - but -. 16 MR. : So like acting captain 17 you mean? 18 MR. : No. Say like if it's a 9, 19 it's like evening watch. Four to twelve or 20 midnight. The 11 is the highest authority. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : As a 9 you can't do that. 23 You have to have 11 or above for 9 to be in 24 authority. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00062662  15 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : So you can be an ops 3 lieutenant but somebody else has to be there 4 that's higher than you? 5 MR. : Yeah. If you a 9 yeah. 6 MR. : Okay. Do you recall what 7 shift you worked on August 9th and 10th of 8 2019? 9 MR. : August 9th? What day was 10 that? 11 MR. : It's August 9th - sorry. 12 We'll just talk about August 9th. August 9th, 13 2019 that was the day before Epstein was found 14 dead. It was a Friday. 15 MR. : So the Friday. I probably 16 was day watch. 17 MR. : Okay. I'm going to give 18 you the daily roster from that date just do you 19 can reprint it. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Um anytime I give you a 22 document - you don't have to do it right away - 23 but you can - I'm just going to have you 24 initial and date each document. It's just for 25 the record we can say that's the document you EFTA00062663  16 1 looked at. And we don't like replace 2 something. You know what I mean? 3 MR. : Mm-hm. 4 MR. : Um so on that can you 5 find your name and see where it is that you 6 worked just to verify? 7 MR. : Yeah. I did overtime from 8 6:00 to 2:00. 9 MR. : From 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 10 p.m.? 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : And that was on August 13 9th? 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : Do you know if you - 16 there were the specific times that you worked? 17 I know for instance the individual that was the 18 activities' lieutenant after you. She didn't 19 start until 4:00 p.m. because she had her 20 regular time shift until 4:00 p.m. 21 MR. : Mm-hm. 22 MR. : Would that mean that you 23 had worked until 4:00? Or would you still have 24 stopped at 2:00? 25 MR. : Uh I don't know. EFTA00062664  17 1 MR. : Do you usually have to 2 wait until the new activities' lieutenant comes 3 on board? 4 MR. Mm that's was -. But 5 she wasn't a lieutenant here though. 6 MR. : No. She was an SIS, but 7 she got I guess temporarily promoted. At least 8 for that day to be able to be the activities' 9 lieutenant. But she was in attorney conference 10 until 4:00 p.m. And she didn't start as the 11 activities' lieutenant until 4:00 p.m. 12 MR. : I don't remember. But I know 13 we usually - even though it says 8:00 to 4:00, 14 we usually do 6:00 to 2:00, 2:00 to 10:00 15 anyway. 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : We relieve people early. 18 MR. : Right. And my 19 understanding is it's for traffic purposes. 20 MR. : So if the 9th I would have 21 came on then. She wouldn't have to stay until 22 4:00. I don't know. 23 MR. : How does that typically 24 work though I guess. Would it be - do you have 25 to be relieved before you can leave? EFTA00062665  18 1 MR. Mm you mean for me? 2 MR. : Yeah. Like if you're the 3 activities' lieutenant at the MCC back in 4 August of 2019. Are you allowed to leave 5 before the new activities' lieutenant takes 6 over? Or do you have to wait until she's done? 7 I'm just trying to help refresh your memory if 8 you can -. 9 MR. : I'm not sure. I know how we 10 do it is someone day I got you. I'll cover 11 you. Then we relieved. 12 MR. : But you don't 13 specifically remember this date? 14 MR. : No. 15 MR. : Not the fact that like 16 Epstein died the day after. Does that help you 17 like kind of refresh your memory of what your 18 involvement may have been? 19 MR. : I know I was doing day watch. 20 I was doing day watch. I do know that. But as 21 far as who relieved and all that. No. I don't 22 remember that. 23 MR. : All right. We can 24 probably just grab your time and attendance 25 records then later just to try to EFTA00062666  19 1 (Indiscernible * *00:12:34) that down. But you 2 just can't remember at this point? 3 MR. : What you asked me was I 4 there? 5 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. Just I 6 mean from the 2:00 to 4:00. You don't remember 7 if you would have - you had to wait until 8 was actually in place before you left or 9 not. 10 MR. : Nah. I don't know. I could 11 have been there at 4:00 because I left at 2:00. 12 I'm not sure. 13 MR. : Okay. Fair enough. 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. : So you either worked 16 until 2:00 p.m. or 4:00 p.m. you just don't 17 recall. 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : All right. And who did 20 you - on that date - who would have you 21 primarily worked with? 22 MR. Mm I don't know. Because 23 Friday -. I don't know why I'm doing overtime 24 on Friday. I'm trying to think. And is 25 normally not the ops lieutenant though either. EFTA00062667  20 1 MR. : Is that because he was a 2 9? 3 MR. is 11. He's SHU 4 lieutenant. 5 MR. : At that time was the 6 SHU lieutenant. 7 MR. : Oh no-no-no was the SHU 8 lieutenant. Okay. So if I'm on Friday and 9 Saturday, then 10 MR. : Well here if -. 11 MR. : Maybe. I don't know. You 12 have my what's her name records? 13 MR. : This is Saturday. So I'm 14 giving you the daily assignment roster. 15 MR. : I'm thinking this is my day 16 off. I'm thinking Friday was my day off. So I 17 came in for the overtime on Friday. If I'm on 18 Friday and Saturday, then I would be ops. 19 That's what I'm thinking. 20 MR. : Did you work on Saturday? 21 MR. : Saturday I was off. 22 MR. : Okay. So you're not on 23 that list that I just gave you for Saturday? 24 MR. : No. I should be on day 25 watch. EFTA00062668  21 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : This the day Epstein died 3 right? 4 MR. : Yes. 5 MR. : Yeah. I wasn't there that 6 day. 7 MR. : Okay. But you just can't 8 remember if you worked until 2:00 p.m. or 4:00 9 p.m. on August 9th. 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : Again there's no reason 12 that I'm asking you this specifically right 13 now. It's just to try to make sure we know 14 what time you worked there. 15 MR. : Well you trying to see if 16 there's a pattern of -. 17 MR. : no-no-no. Not a pattern. 18 It's not looking at you. It's just to - you 19 know when we talk to people, we say like what 20 time were you there from. Just because in 21 knowing that didn't start until - 22 because there's no reason for us at this point 23 to get your time and attendance records. 24 Because again we're just talking to everybody 25 that was there on each day. EFTA00062669  22 1 MR. : Mm-hm. 2 MR. : I'm just trying to -. 3 When we talk to you, we just need to lock down 4 each person. What time were you there until? 5 MR. : I don't know. 6 MR. : We have specific questions 7 about what happened during the day. But if 8 you're not there during the day during that 9 specific time -. 10 MR. : Some questions might not 11 apply to you. 12 MR. : Apply to you. That's what 13 we're trying to figure out. So what time were 14 you there until. 15 MR. : I mean so you want to ask me 16 questions up until 4:00 is what you're saying? 17 MR. : We'll ask you 18 specifically questions -. 19 MR. : Well you can do it but if I 20 don' remember I just say I don't remember. 21 MR. : Yeah. That's fine. You 22 just don't, but at this point you just don't 23 know if you were there until 4:00. 24 MR. : No. 25 MR. : Um and you don't remember EFTA00062670  23 1 relieving . Or relieving you. 2 MR. : no. 3 MR. : And do you remember being 4 relieved by anyone? 5 MR. : no. 6 MR. : No? All right. But I 7 guess then that goes back to my original 8 question. Do you need to be relieved by 9 someone in order to leave? 10 MR. : Um normally. It depends. 11 MR. : Can there be just an ops 12 lieutenant and no activities' lieutenant on 13 during the day? 14 MR. : Yeah. That could be any day. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : So it's just - there's 18 no-. these are genuine questions. We don't 19 know the answers to these. So that's not like 20 abnormal to have like just like a two-hour gap 21 where there's no activities' lieutenant? 22 MR. : No. We was going a lot of 23 work up until this. We were doing a lot of 24 work. So some days you'll be there. I'm quite 25 sure looking at the records, you'll see my name EFTA00062671  24 1 by itself. 2 MR. : Right. 3 MR. : So. 4 MR. : On some days there was 5 just like one activity or one ops lieutenant? 6 There was nobody -? 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Okay. And that was 9 Monday through Friday? Not just on weekends? 10 MR. : Any day. 11 MR. : Or night shifts? Or 12 morning? 13 MR. : Any days. It was a busy time 14 back then. 15 MR. : Yes. Um. Okay. Do you 16 know at that time who was your supervisor? 17 MR. : Uh the captain. Captain 18 19 MR. : Okay. And as the 20 activities' lieutenant, and you said it was day 21 watch? 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : What were your duties and 24 responsibilities? 25 MR. : Rounds um orderly EFTA00062672  25 1 institution. Running the institution. 2 MR. : And what does a round 3 consist of as a lieutenant? 4 MR. : Going up to the unit. 5 Speaking to the officer. If you want, go to 6 unit team. Do the tiers. See what's going on. 7 MR. : Now at that time, did 8 lieutenant -? When you say go do tiers. Were 9 Lieutenants responsible for conducting rounds 10 of inmates as well? Like you know walking up 11 and down the tiers to make sure? 12 MR. : Something like that. I mean 13 that's - are we - the lieutenants responsible 14 for that? 15 MR. : Yeah. I know that that's 16 the CO's primary responsibility. But when you 17 are conducting a round in like a unit, 18 specifically we'll talk about the SHU. If you 19 visit the SHU, and on this date, there was no 20 SHU lieutenant. Correct? 21 MR. : No. 22 MR. : So if you were visiting 23 the SHU, are you responsible to conduct any 24 rounds of the tiers as a lieutenant? 25 MR. : Yeah. The lieutenant has to EFTA00062673  26 1 make a round in SHU each shift. 2 MR. : So when I say - but when 3 you visit the SHU, is it just visiting the SHU? 4 Checking in with the officers? Or do you - I 5 mean - checking in with the COs or is it 6 actually also doing a round of - where the 7 inmates are located and looking in their cells? 8 MR. : I mean yeah, you're supposed 9 to do a round. 10 MR. : Okay. So that -. 11 MR. : You mean exactly what do you 12 supposed to specifically do? 13 MR. : Yeah. I guess what I'm 14 asking is what does a lieutenant round in the 15 SHU consist of? 16 MR. : I don't know. I know for me, 17 I used to like to go down the tiers. 18 MR. : To actually check on the 19 inmates. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : So you're actually doing 22 -? 23 MR. : Do a whole complete round. 24 MR. : So you're actually doing 25 a round of the inmates not just doing a round EFTA00062674  27 1 in the SHU to say hey are you guys good with 2 the officers. 3 MR. : Yeah. Unless something 4 happens. Like if something happens you know. 5 They just say you all right - it was a BA. All 6 right. I'll be back or something like that. 7 But. 8 MR. : Right-right. You mean if 9 you got called out or something like that - you 10 needed the run. 11 MR. : That or they call you. 12 MR. : Right. 13 MR. : Something specific to a 14 specific tale or -. 15 MR. : Yeah-yeah. But were you 16 responsible - and this is just in general not 17 just specifically you? It's any lieutenant. 18 If there's no SHU lieutenant responsible to do 19 a round on day watch of the inmates when they 20 visit the SHU. 21 MR. : I'm not sure. 22 MR. : You're not sure. But you 23 did. 24 MR. : That day? 25 MR. : No I mean just in EFTA00062675  28 1 general. Like when you would visit the SHU you 2 would do that? 3 MR. : Yeah. Say like if I fill in 4 or whatever. And there's no SHU lieutenant to 5 say hey you got to make a round. All right. 6 Or you have activities do it or whatever. 7 MR. : So ops lieutenant tells 8 you to do the round? 9 MR. : Anyone could say hey I'm 10 going up there or hey I got the round or 11 whatever. 12 MR. : Does a lieutenant have to 13 do a round on that shift? 14 MR. : That would be yeah you have 15 to do a round. 16 MR. : Okay. So at least one 17 lieutenant on day watch on August 9, 2019, had 18 to do a round in the SHU of the inmates? 19 MR. : On day watch? 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : Uh yeah. 22 MR. : What about night watch 23 and morning watch? Do they have to do it on 24 those? 25 MR. : Night watch and morning watch EFTA00062676  29 1 yeah. 2 MR. : So every shift a 3 lieutenant has to 4 MR. : Three shifts you got to do a 5 round. 6 MR. : And that -? 7 MR. : Supposed to do a round. 8 MR. : And that's with the 9 inmates not just checking in? 10 MR. : I'm not sure. 11 MR. : Oh you're not sure. But 12 you would? When you did it? 13 MR. : I'm on (Indiscernible * 14 *00:19:51). I'm trying to move around. 15 like to hit the tiers. 16 MR. : Okay. Cool. Do you remember 17 who you replaced on that day? 18 MR. : Who I relieved? 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MR. : Who I relieved? 21 MR. : Who relieved -? 22 MR. : Nobody. 23 MR. : So because there's no 24 activities' lieutenant prior to you? 25 MR. : No. EFTA00062677  30 1 MR. : And that's because yeah 2 there's only - for the morning watch is there 3 only an ops lieutenant? 4 MR. : Yep. 5 MR. : So you were the first one 6 in on that day? And you said you arrived when? 7 MR. : Um 6:00. 8 MR. : 6:00 a.m. Okay. And you 9 said you just don't recall who replaced you or 10 if you stayed until 4:00. Correct? 11 MR. : Yeah. Did you look at the 12 video? 13 MR. : We didn't - haven't had a 14 reason to yet. I just assumed you would have 15 remembered. 16 MR. : No. I don't remember. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : It was '19. 19 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. No just 20 because of the - you know this was probably one 21 of the biggest things that's ever happened. 22 MR. : Yeah but that's why I'm like 23 why are they asking about it now? That's why 24 I'm like -. 25 MR. : Yeah. I mean now is just EFTA00062678  31 1 because there's things that have happened in 2 the past month that now is creating a -- 3 MR. : Oh with the case. 4 MR. : Yeah. That we now have 5 to interview a ton of people to be able to find 6 out who was there, what happened, and all that 7 kind of stuff. 8 MR. : Yeah. But I'm not sure about 9 the time on that. 10 MR. : All right. And are you 11 familiar with Jeffrey Epstein? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : Did you ever work or 14 visit the SHU while Epstein was assigned to the 15 SHU in July and August 2019? 16 MR. : Probably yeah. 17 MR. : Did Epstein have a 18 celimate when he was in the SHU? 19 MR. : Up until that day, right? 20 MR. : Yes. And do you know if 21 there was a reason why Epstein was assigned a 22 celimate? 23 MR. : In SHU you're supposed to be 24 double bunked. 25 MR. : Okay. So -. EFTA00062679  32 1 MR. : Even if you don't have the 2 whole prior thing before. 3 MR. : So everybody in the SHU 4 is supposed to be? 5 MR. : Not everybody. But you got 6 certain cases. But he was supposed to have a 7 bunk. 8 MR. : So as far as who would - 9 who wouldn't be assigned a cellmate? 10 MR. : House alone, rec alone 11 inmates. You know hunger strike inmates, 12 NPOs... 13 MR. : But Epstein was one of 14 those inmates that should have had a cellmate? 15 MR. : Yeah. He was a regular 16 inmate. Yeah. 17 MR. : Okay. Um are you aware 18 that Epstein had attempted to commit suicide on 19 July 23, 2019? 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. : And were you one of the 22 responding officers to that? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : Were you - did you have 25 any involvement with it? EFTA00062680  33 1 MR. : That incident? No. 2 MR. : No. Do you know what 3 transpired? 4 MR. : They say he put something 5 around his neck. In his cell. And that was 6 it. 7 MR. : Did you ever hear any 8 rumors that his cell mate may have tried to 9 harm him? 10 MR. : Oh yeah. You're talking 11 about um Yeah. I heard about that. Yeah. 12 MR. : What did you hear about 13 that? 14 MR. : That it was a ploy for him to 15 get bail. Something like that. 16 MR. : All right. So did you -? 17 Is your understanding that he actually did try 18 to harm himself? Or was it your understanding 19 that his cell mate tried to harm him? 20 MR. : You're talking about the 21 rumor? 22 MR. : Yeah. What is your 23 understanding of 24 MR. : The rumor was the guy -- 25 MR. : -- what actually -? EFTA00062681  34 1 MR. : -- also had a high-profile 2 case. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : And I think Epstein was up 5 for a bail hearing. So they made it look like 6 he was doing that in order to get bail. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : Do you think there was 10 any legitimacy to the rumor? 11 MR. : I don't know. Not after 12 this. Nah. 13 MR. : No. 14 MR. : No. 15 MR. : All right. So do you 16 believe that he did actually try to harm 17 himself on July 23rd? 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : Okay. Um do you know as 20 a result of July 23rd if Epstein - if anything 21 happened with Epstein? Was he removed from the 22 SHU and placed anywhere else? 23 MR. : Mm. He went to suicide 24 watch. 25 MR. : Okay. And what happens EFTA00062682  35 1 on suicide watch? Is that outside of the SHU? 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : And then after you get 4 placed on suicide watch. Is that a temporary 5 thing and then you get moved over to psych 6 observation? 7 MR. : Not all the time. No. 8 That's up to psych. Psych makes that call. 9 MR. : Do you - are you aware if 10 Epstein was outside of the SHU and on suicide 11 watch or psych observation for approximately 12 one week? 13 MR. : I know he was definitely on 14 there. Because I remember seeing him. 15 MR. : You saw him there? 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : Um is that because you 18 were doing rounds? Or why did you see him 19 there? 20 MR. : I had to - because I'm the 21 one who does the showers. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. : For suicide inmates. Or 24 psych watch if you're down there. So he was 25 down there one day - probably a couple days. EFTA00062683  36 1 But I know I took him to the shower one time. 2 Yeah. 3 MR. : Okay. So you had some 4 interaction with him. 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : While he was on suicide 7 watch. 8 MR. : Suicide watch. Yeah. 9 MR. : Okay. And I just thought 10 - I thought you were only on suicide watch for 11 like 24 hours. And then after that it was 12 called psych observation. Is that not your 13 understanding? 14 MR. : It's up to psych. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. : That's a psych call. 17 MR. : But is it in the same 18 they're in the same location. Correct? 19 MR. : Yeah but people who are on 20 suicide watch longer than 24 hours. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : So your understanding the 24 whole time he was there it was called suicide 25 watch? EFTA00062684  37 1 MR. : I don't remember. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : The whole time he was there. 4 MR. : Um do you know when he 5 was removed from suicide watch? 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. : Do you know why he was 8 removed from suicide watch? 9 MR. : He would be moved because 10 psych said it's okay. 11 MR. : Okay. And when someone 12 is on suicide watch, what does it entail? 13 MR. : You have a suicide smock. 14 Suicide mattress. And a suicide blanket. And 15 you allow pretty much no items unless they 16 approved it, there's a book they have. 17 MR. : Okay. And what's the 18 difference? What is the difference between 19 psych observation? What does that entail? 20 MR. : You got the clothes. 21 MR. : All right. So when 22 you're on suicide watch, you don't have 23 clothes? 24 MR. : Naked. 25 MR. : You're naked the whole EFTA00062685  38 1 time? And you know if Epstein was naked that 2 whole time? 3 MR. : He had a smock and a -. 4 Yeah. He didn't have no clothes. 5 MR. : He didn't have clothes 6 when he was on suicide watch? 7 MR. : You can't have clothes on 8 suicide watch. 9 MR. : Okay. All right. So 10 does it sound right that he would have been 11 removed about a week later around July 30th. 12 Does that sound like a date -- 13 MR. : I don't know. 14 MR. : -- or you're not sure? 15 MR. : Mm-hm I don't know. 16 MR. : Okay. Did you ever 17 receive any instructions from anyone with 18 regard to Epstein being assigned a cellmate 19 after he came back from suicide watch? 20 MR. : I'm not sure. 21 MR. : You don't remember any 22 verbal conversations or anything like that? 23 MR. : No. 24 MR. : All right. I'm going to 25 show you an email. And then you can tell me if EFTA00062686  39 1 you remember receiving it. An email from a 2 Do you know who that is? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : All right. It's to 5 Suicide Watch / Psych Observation Update. And 6 that's also what the subject is. And it's from 7 July 30, 2019. It says, "Inmate Epstein" and 8 it gives his reg number. "Is being taken off 9 of psych observation and needs to be housed 10 with an appropriate cellmate." Do you recall 11 receiving -? 12 MR. : Yeah. It's a generic. We 13 always get those. 14 MR. : You get those? 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : There's names on the 17 back. It shows that you were one of them and 18 that you read it. Do you see your name? Yeah. 19 It would be underill So. It's all 20 alphabetical. 21 MR. : It's under what? 22 MR. : It would be your first 23 MR. : Oh, okay. Yeah. 24 MR. : So does that ring a bell? 25 Do you remember getting that? EFTA00062687  40 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : Okay. Cool. And then do 3 you recall -? So you are aware that he needed 4 a cellmate then. Correct? You already said 5 that you knew he needed one because he was a 6 regular inmate. Right? 7 MR. : Yeah. But I don't know what 8 this is at 12:30 the 30th right? 9 MR. : Yeah 7:30 - so yeah. 10 MR. : Oh it was 7:30 July 30th? 11 So he got off on July 30th? 12 MR. : Correct. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : Placed back in the SHU 15 and required a cellmate. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : And just before we 18 forget. Do you mind just initialing and dating 19 each one of these documents just so that they 20 don't start piling up? And as well as that 21 email. Thank you, sir. Now do you remember 22 having any conversations with anyone else like 23 verbal. Like or anybody regarding the 24 need for him to have a cellmate? 25 MR. : No. EFTA00062688  41 1 MR. : Because, I'm assuming, he 2 was the most high-profile if not one of the 3 most high-profile inmates at the time. 4 Correct? 5 MR. : Yeah. 6 MR. : So would that be 7 something that they would - people would 8 usually communicate with the activities and the 9 ops lieutenant about? 10 MR. : I mean if you got the email. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. : You got a follow-up that 14 you wanted to ask something? 15 MR. : We'll finish up on this. 16 Because it's going back one. 17 MR. : No-no. Please. Go 18 ahead. 19 MR. : So you mentioned that you had 20 interacted with Epstein when he was on suicide 21 watch. You took him for his showers. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. : How was the interactions with 24 him? 25 MR. : You know, cuff up, take him EFTA00062689  42 1 to the shower. 2 MR. : Did you ever talk to him? 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : Was he pleasant? Were there 5 any issues with that? 6 MR. : He was saying hey, while I'm 7 down here, pretty much he asked why he was down 8 here. I said well, he was like yeah, I'm not 9 suicidal, such-and-such. And you know let me 10 talk to psych so I could get off this. I don't 11 think he liked it. 12 MR. : This was immediately after 13 the July 23rd? 14 MR. : I don't know exactly what day 15 it was. But you know it was around there. 16 MR. : Got it. 17 MR. : We're going to follow-up 18 with some of those more lines of questioning 19 later on in the interview. Um so you don't 20 recall though receiving specific instructions 21 from Captain or anyone else with regard 22 to Epstein? You just - you do know he needed 23 one and you did get the email? 24 MR. : These come all the time. Any 25 inmate comes off of watch, they send it out. EFTA00062690  43 1 MR. : And should everyone know 2 if someone comes off of watch that they are 3 required to have a cellmate? 4 MR. : I'm not sure. I mean that's 5 what they do. They come out. Anyone comes off 6 suicide watch, you put them in with a cellmate. 7 MR. : Yeah. And that's pretty 8 general, common knowledge. Correct? And where 9 do you learn that? Is that from your daily 10 operations? Or do you learn that in training 11 as well? 12 MR. : I don't know. I guess it's 13 daily operations. 14 MR. : Okay. But most people 15 should know that a person coming off of suicide 16 watch is required to have a cellmate. 17 MR. : Uh I mean it depends. I 18 don't know. I know we get these emails though. 19 They send them out any time an inmate comes 20 off. You try to put them with a cellmate. But 21 then ag